Kelis Rowe-I Am the Author of My Life

Kelis Rowe, author of young adult fiction novel Finding Jupiter, talks about balancing your needs with those of your family.  She also shares her journey to becoming a writer. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Growing Up In Memphis
• 11:00 Transferable Skills
• 13:25 Becoming and Being a Mom
• 21:58 Finding That Balance
• 28:29 Discovering Her Purpose
• 36:32 Finding Jupiter
• 45:20 Pivot Pearls of Wisdom

Transcript

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 0:14

Hi, I'm Rhonda Coleman Wandel. And welcome to my podcast, where we celebrate the rich life journeys of women, and the purposeful pivots they make on those journeys. On today's episode, I'm talking to Kelis Rowe, author of finding Jupiter, a black teen romance novel. We'll explore police's road to becoming a writer. And the challenge of balancing taking care of yourself was taking care of others. Kelis, welcome to the podcast.

Kelis Rowe: 0:51

Hi, I'm so happy to be here with you. Yes, I'm so excited that you could be on today.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 0:58

I can't wait for the listeners to hear about your journey. And you just have so many wonderful golden nuggets. So many pivots that you've made throughout your life and career. And so I'm excited to to get into that and discuss it. So let's just jump right in. Okay, let's do it. Cool. So we'll start with a little bit of background. You know, we want to know where you grew up. Because I know you're an author. And your book is based in your hometown, your your first book, and we'll get into talking about that. But tell us about where you grew up. How you grew up. Okay,

Kelis Rowe: 1:42

yeah, I'm from Memphis, as you know. And I grew up in a neighborhood in Memphis called White Haven. My parents actually still live in the same house that I grew up in there with my twin brother and my oldest sister. So Memphis city girl. My both my parents worked, we were in a working class family. You know, sometimes ends didn't quite meet and we had to make choices. So I would consider my upbringing to be lower middle income, at times lower income. And, yeah, it was a happy childhood church every Sunday, you know, rollerskating education was really important in our home. You know, even though my both my parents did not graduate from a four year university, they really stressed education and reading it was very important in my household. So yeah, that was pretty much my upbringing in a nutshell. Yes.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 2:44

Nice. And I have fond memories of that house, some listeners, Elise and I are friends, longtime friends in college. But I can remember my mom dropping me off at your house. And then I became an adult, you know, with my own children kind of meeting up over at your, you know, with my little people who fondly remember Zach has a baby. That's your oldest child of mine, and your mom's super sweet. And your aunt and Margie age? Yes. Super supers Wait, memories of house. Happiness. Alright, so yes, you noted that education was very important for your family. I remember you were a reader as a kid. Can you talk about that? Yes,

Unknown: 3:37

I was, from a very early age, I think all my siblings, we were early readers, and avid readers, I lived walking distance from the library, Levi library in Memphis. And, you know, back then, when I was in fourth and fifth grade, I would get out of like to get out of the house, I would ask my mom, if I could go to the library. Sure, honey, you know, see you, you know, before this. You know, it was a different time in place. But uh, yeah, fourth, fourth grade walking down the street all by myself and not the best of neighborhoods. And I would just go to the library and stay in there until they closed I would browse. You know, the YA section, the section that I wasn't supposed to be in really, I would read all the books. In my grade. I would enjoy all the different performers and storytellers and poets, they would bring in entertainment and I live in. Yeah, libraries. They were that library in particular was my safe space. And even through college, I my work study was in the library. I wrote my book in the library as an adult I libraries are my safe haven. Yeah,

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 4:56

I can relate to that. So you In high school, you know, and it's time to go to college. What were your plans after high school?

Unknown: 5:07

After high school, I was going to be a flight attendant.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 5:12

So you weren't, so you weren't going to go to

Unknown: 5:15

college. I talked about going to college because that's what you know, students who like I went to a Magnet Middle School, and it was in the honors program in high school, when you're smart, and rates and your students, you talk about going to college. So I talked about going to college. But what I really wanted to do, because I decided that at 18, I can do what I want. wanted to be a flight attendant, I wanted to travel I jobs that have, you know, very specific duties spelled out and uniforms appealed to me very much. Because I imagined that there was security in working, that I knew what I was going to be doing every day. You know, my job was clearly outlined for me. So yeah, I wanted to be a flight attendant. So my senior year, I went to a job fair that at the time Northwest Airlines posted to hire, and I learned that I was too tall, there was a height limit, the height requirement for airline workers, for flight attendants. And I was I exceeded that. And I was devastated. Because that was going to be my future wearing a uniform, completing my job traveling. And when I realized that that wasn't going to be part of my future, I went into a deep depression. And I actually didn't apply to college until after I graduate the summer after I graduated.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 6:43

So you had to start making pivots early. I mean, you are, what 1718 years old. And the world is your oyster. You don't think that there's anything you can do? Right? Absolutely. You were you were gonna go be a flight attendant. Like why not? Why can't I do that? Then this big FAA, you know, organization tell you? No, ma'am. You cannot because you're too tall, something that you can't control. Like, you can't control your height. You and you can't control another organization's rules. Yeah. And so and you've just said that you like security. So those are and so how did you get through that? Because that's a major, a major blow.

Unknown: 7:39

I felt like it was actually just a lot of luck. Honestly, I, you know, I waited later than everybody else to apply to college. Even though I had a strong, you know, resume. I was late. So I lucked out that the two local colleges were still accepting, you know, they had Rowling acceptance. And so I applied to them. I got waitlisted at one university, and I got into my alma mater, our alma mater, which is where we met. Yes, yeah, I would say it was luck. I knew that I couldn't not go now that my the one thing that was going to open the world up to me was not a possibility. I knew I had to go to college. At that point, it wasn't a choice. And I was very lucky that I got that I got in.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 8:35

Right. So you're focusing on college? What was your major? Initially? What did you think you wanted to do? When I am? What did you end up doing?

Unknown: 8:46

Okay. Yeah, the easiest choice at the time for me was psychology, just because I'd always been told by friends and family that I was, you know, very intuitive. And everybody felt so comfortable with me. I was the person that everyone in the family leaned on, when they had an issue or a problem or didn't quite know how to go to another family member, or another friend, I was the, you know, Hey, Rick, like kale. What should we do? So I said, I take care of people's feelings and emotions pretty well, I'll study psychology, I'll be a psychologist. And pretty early on, there was one course that I took that was basically the purpose of the course was to see you know, if you if this was the right role for you, it was yourself as a psychologist, and as a counselor, and, you know, ultimately it was it became clear that I'm, I have a very high level of empathy. And I would be the counselor who, you know, had no boundaries. I wouldn't want to bring all the kids home with I want to meet all the clients for coffee. And I would just be stressed stick out. So I pivoted to use your word away from psychology to marketing. I felt like advertising. You know, there's a lot of Psychology at work there. So I figured I, I pivot and do marketing. Instead, I ended up doing both.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 10:17

Right. So your first major job out of college, was in marketing. So can you tell us about what you did there and how you ended up there?

Unknown: 10:32

Yeah, I, I had an internship, actually, my senior year at CBU. That was in the marketing department, my focus actually was market research. I was the person, you know, receiving the surveys, and, you know, putting in the data and writing the reports. And when I first got started, so after graduation, my first job was as a market researcher, for a local nonprofit organization. My first job in my field after college, I was with the Texas labor force. And I basically was one of those people who were, you know, punching those numbers, or cranking out statistics about the workforce, the labor force in the state of Texas, that Job was very reliable, I knew what I was going to be doing every day. I do like order, and you know, security and know what to expect. But it was a little too much, knowing what to expect it was very robotic. So I ended up where I landed, was in a local advertising agency, doing market research analysis for them. And doing market research analysis for marketing campaigns is a little more fun than, you know, just doing the Labor Workforce statistics.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 12:02

Okay, so the skills that you used and acquired in this fun marketing research position, can you talk a little bit about those and how they possibly transfer into writing, which is what you do now? Yeah, well,

Unknown: 12:18

it's all, you know, a lot of observing, I'm reading, um, kind of taking bits and pieces and creating something new and meaningful. That No, that's very surface, but that's the core of what of what I did. And I think as a writer, the kind of writing that I do now is really much the same thing. Wherever I draw my inspiration from, you know, it's bits and pieces of things, I've done things I've, you know, thought of people I've known, and kind of bringing those pieces together and making creating something meaningful, something meaningful and, and new.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 12:58

Right. Yeah, I think that's great. I think it's great to be aware of our transferable skill sets, as women. And because this helps you pivot, you know, we don't have to be stuck in one job for the rest of our lives. You know, we have skills and transfer into other things, you know, depending on how our interests change. All right. Okay, so you are in a career marketing. You love it, right? I know you so I know that you enjoy working and being useful. But you also have dreams of having a family. And at this point, you're married, and you want children. So I want to get into you have a really rich motherhood journey. And for career women, the motherhood journey in the career journey are often intertwined. So you, let's talk about your first child. And how long after getting married and wanting to have a child did you have your first job?

Unknown: 14:16

Yeah, we I was married. Yes, thank you for saying that. I backtrack a little bit to backtrack a little bit. I did. I always loved to work. I like to feel useful. I rarely rarely only had one job. There were times that I had three jobs. Are there times that I had four jobs at one time. From the time I was opened up to work i i like to feel useful and to be useful. So yes. So I worked for seven years before after college before I got pregnant the first time. I say that because my first pregnancy ended in miscarriage. And that was something you know, I don't have to talk a lot about Got it. But that was something that was pretty devastating. Because once you know that you're pregnant, you know you all these instant dreams kind of, you know, wrap in your head, all the dreams you have for this little baby and the dreams you have for your life and your family. And at the time

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 15:15

you start to I heard a woman say the other day, you start to create an identity, a future identity for yourself as a mother, then when you have a miscarriage, it's like not only does your child die, but that future identity. So it's damaged in within you somehow, you know, it dies for a moment anyway. That's, that's doubly painful. Yeah,

Unknown: 15:45

absolutely. Absolutely. And I did a lot of you know, self blaming, I did a lot of internalizing, you know, some pretty ugly and untrue thoughts about myself as a woman. And so yeah, the next time I got pregnant, it was three months later, I got pregnant with my son. And I, you know, with no fear fearlessly, the dreams came back. Myself, yeah.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 16:22

I remember last time, you know, we were talking about this, you talked about being able to find a silver lining in that incident or that time. And that's such a wonderful character trait that you have, you know, you definitely acknowledge the painful aspects of it, but you find the silver lining and find the strength to move forward. So, you know, can you tell us about the silver lining that you saw, and

Unknown: 16:56

yes, I'll talk about the first silver lining, which was that I can drink coffee again. So, pictured me with a hot steaming cup of coffee balled up in a chair crying and sobbing, to my best friend on the phone. You know, when I got home from the hospital, that was me. Beyond that, I, you know, we worked, got back to work, and I got pregnant again, three months later. And I without fear, I was happy again, I had all the dreams, you know, for myself, and my family and my little baby, they all came back as strong as ever. And I looked at my career, I, you know, I'd always wanted to be a working mom, who was there for my children, the way that my mom was, with the understanding that I did want to take as many weeks off as possible, legally, to be with to be with my little baby. And then I was going to, you know, either work from home or start a business or do something enterprising, but also, you know, have my baby I was going to be, you know, like, my mom was, I was going to wear heels and work and be a great mother. But my son was born with a tethered spinal cord. And he needed surgery as a newborn. So, you know, when you when you hear something like that, and you know, at the time, he looks like a perfect baby, you know, there was no sign on the outside to a untrained eye that anything that's going on. Right, but the doctors, you know, thank God for them. So, you know, the dreams, the, you know, of my future self of my baby, all that stuff, just, you know, gets blurry, because what does this mean? What does it mean, to do spinal cord surgery on an infant? What is my life gonna look like? So, so yeah, I ended up being a stay at home mom, not the kind that I, you know, thought I was gonna be initially but ultimately, I found a community and, you know, my son recovered fully and I was able to do be fulfilled in the moment where I was, but I did have to put my career and my personal fulfillment on hold, because, you know, from the time that they told me, my son had a spinal cord problem, I, I kind of disappeared to myself, everything was about him. And for him.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 19:38

Yeah. And so this this phrase that you use disappeared, you disappeared, I, you know, definitely one listeners to hold on to that wing because we're gonna come back to that. That's a big part of what we're talking about today, kind of when we disappear into the void and our and other responsibilities like our family responsibilities take take our place. But, you know, Zack recovered or your child recovered from the spinal cord injury, and pretty readily. That's, that's, that was a blow but tell us about other other aspects of his development that really kind of change the trajectory of your career path?

Unknown: 20:31

Yeah. So yes, he did recover very quickly. He had the surgery as a newborn. And by the time he was 11 months old, he was released from any type of therapy follow up care, you know, they did the final X ray and said, he should develop, you know, like a abled, typical, you know, child, and, you know, that was a big relief, I exhaled, I, you know, by then I had become a very protective kind of helicopter toddler mom, you know, holding him all the time and wanting to protect him from the world. But when we got that report, I started to say, Okay, well, now I can, you know, I'll stay at home with him until preschool, he'll go to preschool, I can go back to work. And the older he got, the closer we got to preschool age, the more evident it was that that that was not going to happen. classrooms were not environments that he was particularly happy in, he had a sensory processing disorder. And, you know, the way that he processed, any kind of sensory input just was not, it didn't deal with a classroom. So I ended up homeschooling. And I did that until he was 10 or 11 years old until he was in fifth grade.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 21:58

Yep. So let's talk about that the decision to homeschool? Because if, if you I know I have, I have three children myself, and homeschooling them, you know, for me, it's not an option. They're big. Now they're like 1819 20, they obviously haven't always been that way. It just takes so much of yourself to, to do that, to do that. And, and also work at the same time. So I would find that incredibly challenging. So can you talk about your decision to homeschool, Zach and, and the challenges personally for yourself or your own personal growth and development that came along with that?

Unknown: 22:54

Okay, yes, I can say that, you know, fortunately, I am married. And my husband, his income was enough for us to live on one income. So I want to add that because I know that that's important in framing my story. But, so, on the financial side, on the lifestyle side, I didn't have those pressures. And also because I am the type of person who, you know, kind of throws myself into the task ahead of me when it became evident that I was going to have to be, you know, yes, a stay at home mom, but also the teacher. I threw myself into it, you know, nobody knew my son better than I did. He was, you know, a highly intelligent, you know, highly gifted little guy. So, I actually took a lot of pleasure in, you know, showing his being his bubble. And last night, out of a bomb group. I joined a mom group because I wanted him to have playdates and playmates and I did that for him. herself because I needed a village as well. And I threw myself into it, you know, if you you look up, you know, cheerleaders, stay at home mom in the dictionary, you know, I was right. I was right there. And it's kind of like, I was happy to do it because I felt fulfilled every day. I knew that my son was taken care of and happy. And you know, that I had created this world for him where he didn't have the kinds of challenges that was stressing him out, you know? He was very free and happy and I was fulfilled. But I was also not I was present for him, but I wasn't I was not present for myself.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 24:50

Yes. And I and I know that many of us, you know, struggle with finding that balance, right? Especially high achiever. because we see all of these wonderful things that I want to provide my children with and opportunities, and I want to be there every second, you know? Yes. And then, you know, we put ourselves on put our put ourselves second all the time and feel guilty when we put ourselves first. Yes. And that's, that's just such a such a difficult, I guess balance to find, I feel like you found it now with your second baby. And yes, you found it. So I would love for you to talk about how you found, you know, the ballots and how you, you know, give yourself the green light to take care of you first. So

Unknown: 25:50

I would love to talk about that. So homeschooling mom, well, my son is in fifth grade, he goes to, to public school, I, you know, we take a trip of a lifetime to Africa, we did three weeks in Africa. And then three weeks at my husband's in my husband's home country, you signed the infant, and on the after that and so we're at his parents home, wonderful, family loving, just a great, great family. And everybody's you know, like, okay, you know, Zach's going to school. Whereas, you know, it's time to have another baby, whereas our grandchild, kind of the running theme of time back home with him. And obviously, we wanted more kids. But the more that conversation was happening, the more I was thinking, you know, the closer Zachary got to go into school, I was like, okay, then now it's going to be my turn again, you know, what am I going to do next? I go back to what I was doing, you know, 10 years before, but me now by that time, it was a whole new world. I couldn't go back into market research. And, you know, at the same level that I left, I would have a lot of learning to do. And also, I hadn't been in the workforce in a decade. And so I would have to readjust to doing that again. Right. It was something that I was looking forward to doing. It was such an adventure that I was looking forward to taking on. But the closer we got to the end of that vacation and coming home, I knew that I was also getting closer to kind of not fading back in like I was, you know, I faded to black a decade ago, I was gonna stay there, you know, I had started writing a book, in two years, two years prior to that, I started writing a book, like a little seed of a book that I was gonna write. And I had kind of tabled it, because it's the kind of thing where, you know, I was still you know, very much a stay at home mom. And, you know, trying to eke out something for myself, but always, always, always prioritizing my family. But coming back home from that trip, I realized that I'm gonna have another baby, it's what I need to do. But more than that, I need to finish this thing I need to go after this thing that I wanted to carve out for myself, if I don't do it now. I'm never going to do it. I'm gonna love my babies. But I'm gonna be a sad mom.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 28:30

Okay, so let's pause a minute. And unpack this, because you've said so many wonderful things. So you, your first child was ready to go back to school, you know. And, at this point, 10 years have passed since you were in the workforce. And you knew that it was your time, right? But then you acknowledge, like, what I left in the workforce 10 years ago, and no longer exists for me. So what am I going to do? So I want to talk about you finding your purpose, figuring that out. And I love that you also said you were very excited and open to the adventure of finding out right. Yeah. And so it was okay, you know, to let go of whatever version of yourself existed 10 years ago, and and look at the new version of yourself and figure out what your purpose was. So just how did you do that?

Unknown: 29:34

Well, I, I can back up to when I started writing the book, a friend of mine, a wonderful friend of mine that I met in a mom's group that I joined. She, you know, I bounced a lot of my anxiety off of her and she was like, why don't we make a vision board? And then at alanda Why don't we make a vision board and so we had a vision board party, just the two of us. I love boards. So my vision board saved, it saved my life. So you get to the core of what's important of what you want out of life. And for me, it was so simple. You know, I wanted to stay married, I wanted to have more babies, I wanted to write a book. I wanted to travel with my family, very simple things, that when you put it on paper, it's like, I don't, I don't want a lot. But let me order my steps towards these things. So I feel important.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 30:36

That's like goal setting, value setting through that exercise, and focus, like focusing, forcing yourself to sit down and really look at who I am and what it is. I want. Such a wonderful, wonderful exercise. I think everybody should do it. Absolutely. regularly. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So how does your vision board come to life? Yeah, so

Unknown: 31:05

the easiest thing on my vision board to actually, you know, work towards that I felt like could materialize in time that I could control was the writing of the book. So I started writing the book. And, you know, it was kind of a chop, chop, you know, one step up to 10 steps back, because I was still homeschooling, I was still a stay at home mom. But But I, I had ignited this little spark inside myself that I knew I was working on something that was going to be just for me. And so yeah, we after we got home from that trip, I was really determined to do it. It was almost like a race against, you know, time because I was also trying to get pregnant. And so I started writing this book. And it's kind of like, once I threw myself back into the book that I had started writing two years prior, I threw myself back into it with a sense of urgency. That was really desperation, honestly, because I saw depression, staring me down at the end of this, if it didn't, you know, if I didn't finish this book that I was going to self publish, I just wanted to finish this book. So so that's what I did. I threw myself into it. Fortunately, you know, for me, I, you know, I did end up pregnant. And I did end up selling my book. In the same year, I think the year that my book sold, was also the year I got pregnant. And or the year my book sold was the year that I had my baby, or something like that. And it all lines up. Yes. Yeah, the point is that, yeah, both things came together for me, at a time when, when I really needed them to

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 32:49

write, no, that's beautiful. It's beautiful. And, you know, we've talked a bit about like, throughout the podcast today, about kind of disappearing into the void or disappearing into taking care of your family and your children and lose losing yourself essentially. And, and then finding yourself again, and you acknowledge that you were not completely fulfilled by by ignoring your needs. And and you did not want, you did not want to be a depressed mom, you did just to not want to live that life. Yes. And you changed, you know, you, you made sure that that you didn't. So that's wonderful, that's wonderful.

Unknown: 33:46

And I also want to mention that, you know, pursuing this dream that I had, with the knowledge that it was something like deep down, but I felt like I was I needed to do. I was fortunate in that, you know, selling the book, made it possible for us to hire a nanny so that I could continue to write. And, you know, not having used childcare with my son. You know, I didn't have a lot of time, time wasn't on my side to kind of vet that a lot of people and work through my trust issues. Yes. So we were very lucky that we met the perfect nanny, who we found out after the fact, had grown up with a dear friend of mine, who knew her family very intimately and could vouch for her and that really made it possible for us to invite this person into our home and, and trust that she was going to be, you know, everything that my daughter needed while I was away.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 34:54

And that's a big thing for you because I was there, you know, when you were raising your first child and I I can see that you are putting all of yourself into that, you know, you that you did not. I mean, nobody could babysit this. Mother, your mother had to fly from Memphis, Tennessee to Austin to keep your child because she would not let anybody keep him.

Unknown: 35:23

Very grateful for cheap plane tickets, thankfully.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 35:28

This is major growth for you to give up that kind of control. Because to realize like that did not serve that will not continue to serve me to just drain myself dry, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Yes. So, people, okay, she sounds bougie because she's got a nanny. But no, no, this is a big, big deal. A big growth for for Cal. Absolutely.

Unknown: 35:59

Absolutely. And it's one of those things where again, you know, there was a little thread of desperation in there. You know, I wanted my, my second child to have everything and my first child had, but I was a different person. I had my second child. So yeah, I had to find a way to do that. And I'm very fortunate in that I was able to, to order it to manage my life, organize my life in a way that that served both of us.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 36:33

Right, great. So let's talk a little bit about your book, we've got a little more time. What is your book about? The title is finding Jupiter? It's young adult fiction. What's it about? And what inspired you to write the book like outside of your personal, you know, goals? Just the the content of the book, what inspired you to write it?

Unknown: 36:59

Okay, I'll start at the beginning. And I'll try to be brief. But you know, I haven't always read mostly I read adult fiction. And when the Hunger Games movies came out, I became obsessed with that movie, I watched all the movies, I think the third movie was out at the time. And I watched the trilogy, back to back to back, it was almost an embarrassing amount of times.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 37:28

When books were out, and I read them back to back, it was just like a refuge for me from from the law school, you know, law school life.

Unknown: 37:39

And so I discovered the books after I had, you know, gave it given into my obsession with the movies, because I was like, I'll experience this story differently. I read the series, back to back to back. And I had listened to the series back to back. And I went, Okay, there has to be more out there and why. So I started reading Collins, she's a wonderful writer. Absolutely. Excellent.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 38:03

Elevated writing for young adults.

Unknown: 38:05

Absolutely. Absolutely. So yes. So once I got my feel of Hunger Games, I branched out and I read more fantasy books and series. And one day, I saw a book cover for the cover of the book calling my name by Leanna to money. And the cover is very simple. It's just a black girl. She's standing, you know, facing the side looking to the side. And it's just a black girl in the middle of this book. And it was a black girl who could have been me, you know, she had on Chuck Taylors she had, you know, it could have been me. And um, how old am I at the time, I'm like, I'm 40 at the time, and I'm looking at this book cover, and I'm like, wow, you know, so why a novel I that was something that I'd never seen as a girl. And the book cover made a promise to me. So I picked up the book, I bought the book. And when I got home, and started reading, you know, the first page I you know, the book fulfill this promise it fulfill this promise to me, it was about me. It was a it was a 12 year old girl at the time. But it was about me for the first time I'm reading this book, after seeing that image on the front. And I was reading about myself, you know, a 12 year old southern girl, religious mother, everybody's getting ready for church, you don't want to go to church, you want to go outside and stare at the sky. And you know what I did? I stopped reading as a screenshot. And I took photos of the pit those pictures and I sent them to my best friend and I was like, This is us. It's us. Mm hmm. And I was you know, 40 and I'm enjoying this moment. And also in the moment, I'm like, wow, you know, as much as I love to read as much as I love, you know, all the 80s You know, love stories and all that, you know, pretty in pink and 16, candles, etc, I didn't realize that I was missing anything, because I found pieces of those characters to identify with the insecurity, you know, the awkwardness, the fish out of water feeling, right? When I was reading that book, I realized that I was missing something. And I right that I knew I had to give that to young people. And so it was just confirmation for me that you know, that, you know, the love story that I was writing was going to have meaning read it, and it just woke me up. It woke me up into understanding that I wanted to write books that felt like gifts to the people who were reading them. And they felt like, you know, bright moments for the people who, you know, might not be little black girls, but who love love love stories, you know, it will be another thing that they enjoy as well. So yeah, that that woke me up to my purpose.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 41:03

Right. And I know you've said before, that you want to, you wanted to write something that had a lasting impact on black culture in the United States. That's a, that's a wonderful, wonderful thing to want to do. I love that.

Unknown: 41:23

You know, and it's a big thing to want to do, right? Because I know that I can control what I write, I know, you know, that I can pour my heart and soul into something. But I also know that I, at the time, I had not read a story about young black Americans, that felt that was bright. You know, this was before the wave of, you know, black romance novels for teens, where you got to see teams doing things other than, you know, clashing with police or coming in a reckoning with their race or racism in America, etc. And so I knew, I do know that I've made a contribution that will be will be bright, a bright departure for a lot of reading that young people get to do. When I think about my son's reading, you know, list in class, when they came home, every book that had a black teenager on the cover was felt dark, it was about some trauma, or some pain. And that was not the case with the other books that were full of adventure. And exactly. So you know, then that was even more confirmation for me that, yes, that's what I'm gonna be doing.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 42:45

And honestly, you know, that's a whole lot of black children's experience in this country. Certainly my children and your children. Yeah, right. Everybody's life is not rife with trauma, and violence. And I feel like more children's lives can be can be adventurous if we write that, absolutely give them that as something you know, that they can have and experience, which is why we read books to escape where we are, yet something else.

Unknown: 43:23

Yes, I always. There's a quote, I can't remember who I think it was. Bishop is the name. But I mentioned it all the time, because it talks about books as mirrors and Windows. And I feel like if you grow up black in America, as a black teenager, there's a common thread that you all that is familiar to all of you, no matter what your socio economic status is, if you grow up as an American teenager, there are threads, threads that connect you all. And you know, so the humanity that those common threads are what I love to what I loved about incorporating into my, my book, Jupiter, and that quote, that talks about the mirrors and Windows. It's so important. It was so important for me for my book to be a window, right? To get into this life of this one group of black teenagers growing up in Memphis, to people who might not know black teenagers who might not have ever been to Memphis to give them a peek into the contemporary modern life of those types of teenagers. And more importantly, for it to be a mirror to all those kids who grew up in the city, who, you know, we're definitely reminded that they were black in different ways. Society. Yeah, but but we're not traumatized by it. Right. And it's so important for them to see themselves represented in in fiction as well.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 44:55

Yes, because Black Lives Matter.

Unknown: 44:58

Absolutely. Absolutely. Let's

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 45:00

play so because we Yes, you know, what's on the bookshelves, what's on TV, what's that? matters? Right? Does and, and so, put my put me on the bookshelves let people read about my life, you know? Because I matter.

Unknown: 45:18

Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 45:20

This has been wonderful kilise thank you so much for coming today. So, you are the first podcast of season two. First podcast episode of season two of Ronda Coleman Wandel podcast. And so we you know, last season I would ask guests to leave me with a few words, you know, for the listeners, but this season, my marketing guru says you talk about pivoting, so ask each guest to leave their pivot pearls of wisdom. And so what what are your pivot pearls of wisdom for our listeners,

Unknown: 45:56

my pearls of wisdom would be to tell mothers to tell women, um, if I had never pursued my dream, I would be three fourths of a person. And that quarter that will be missing would be my deep that deep and true happiness. I love my kids, I love being a mom love being a wife, and my family, I will show up for my kids love them down. When I will be battling depression, you know, inside. And so I would my pearl of wisdom on my pivot pearl of wisdom. I would tell moms that your kids and your families they deserve to see you work towards and achieve your dreams. They just they deserve it. The women in your lives you know if you're not a mom, the women in your lives, your your friends, your families, the people who the village who shows up for you deserves to see you go after and achieve your dreams and you deserve to do it too.

Rhonda Coleman Wandel: 47:14

Wonderful. Thank you so much. KALISE I've loved having you on the podcast today. I love I love having you as a friend. I love witnessing your journey and I just felt I feel very privileged to continue to be a part of it.

Unknown: 47:32

Thank you so much. And I'm so proud of you and so privileged to be able to be a part of your this wonderful podcast that you have here. This great, powerful thing that you're building. I'm so proud of us. So thank you for thank you for having me.