Rhonda Coleman Wandel Podcast
Rhonda Coleman Wandel Podcast
Victoria Watkins-From Government to Venture Capital: A Career Journey
Victoria Watkins is Founder and Managing Partner of Inrichmint, an organization that sources curated deal flow for high net worth individuals and families. She previously served as Chief of Staff to the Co-CEO and Chief Investment Officer at Ariel Investments. Prior to joining Ariel, Victoria worked for the City of Chicago in the Office of Mayor Rahm Emanuel, serving as Senior Advisor, and Deputy Director of Legislative Counsel & Government Affairs. Victoria shares her journey from growing up in Chicago to working in government, venture capital, and private equity. She reflects on societal pressures discouraging women from STEM fields and her initial resistance to certain career paths, ultimately finding success by staying open to opportunities. She also highlights her passion for fashion, entertainment, her online tea shop Joy and Magic, and her children's book, Little Valerie and her Big World of Options, encouraging others to embrace new opportunities.
Here we go. All right. Hi, Victoria. Welcome to the podcast. Hi, how are you? Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing great, thank you. It is Saturday morning and I had a big day yesterday and so I'm exhaling. I'm happy to be done with, I gave a talk and I had to have an article before the talk so, and it's end of quarter at work, but I'm very happy that it's Saturday I get to exhale and I get to talk to you, which is fun. looking forward to it. All right, so let's just get into it. I wanna explore your journey. It's a very rich, powerful one. You've had some amazing professional opportunities. And it's so funny because before our first exploratory call, I did not, and I make a habit of this, I don't look at my guests LinkedIn profile. I just wanna learn everything from them. And a lot of the, what many people would think are awesome, like jobs, you didn't even mention until the end of our talk, you know? But for me, that's very telling. One, you're humble, and then you, the things that are getting you like excited now, like your children's book and your tea shop, like those are the things you wanted to talk about and explore. So, but we're going to get into all of it today. So, Let's start at the beginning. You have a really beautiful beginning story of how you grew up. I love it. It was full of family, full of love. And so tell us a bit about that. yes. So I was born on the West side of Chicago. funny enough, me and, me and my dad were born at the same hospital. My mom was not born there, but, my cousin works there now, at Rush. And, I actually lived across the street from the school where my parents met. So my mom was a first year teacher right out of college. My dad was the head basketball coach and athletic director. This was a part time thing for him because he worked full time at ComEd. And my grandmother, his mom was the secretary, although people called her dean of discipline. And my great grandmother was the parish cook. This was at a Catholic school. And. already like a sweet lifetime movie and we have heard all of it. My mom would want to hear that because she loves Lifetime movies. So yeah, and we like I said, we lived across the street from school. And my great grandmother who had been the parish cook was kind enough, which I'm so thankful for all these years later, she retired. when I was six months old to take care of me and I'm actually This may be slightly unrelated, but I'm actually I've named after her my name. That was my name before she retired but I am Victoria just like she is and Being with her and living in my grandmother's building and being close to my other grandmother my Nana Started me with I call them my OGs. Those are my original girlfriends So... yeah, it was really, really a great start to life. I'm an only child, but I have three cousins who I call my pseudo siblings. We are all pretty cool and close. So it definitely was a really good start to what's been a really good and blessed life for me. Sweet, sweet, yes, I can relate to that in some way. So I'm adopted and I was adopted as an infant and adopted into an amazing family full of love. My mom was one of 10, my dad was one of eight, but all of my aunts and uncles were just incredible. Both sides of the family did things together, picnicking and all kinds of scheduled planned events. You're always at your grandmother's house just full of love. And I have, I just always say I'm just so blessed and so fortunate to kind of have had that as my foundation. Yep, yep, same, me too. All right, so you let's talk about women in STEM and math and in the influences that show up, I guess, in our lives as girls that make us math averse. Can you talk about a little bit about that? I think this was probably in the fall or so, maybe late last summer, where I was on a webinar and the discussion, the webinar was for women in investing. And we were talking about how growing up, a lot of times women are not encouraged to really participate or dive into math and science and STEM related fields. We're often, you know, pushed a little more into writing or human services and like the more feel good things versus technical things. And when someone mentioned, you know, a couple like just random quotes of I'm not good at math or I stay away from math, it really hit me because I have said that before. And, you know, I've been the person who said like I went to law school because there was no math. But when I got off that webinar, I thought about it and I'm. Realized how much I actually like I loved algebra. I said let me give me you know X or Y I will find it. Okay, let me do it So I really never had a huge struggle in math but I do remember having kind of those talking points of Like avoiding math and finding other paths that were not math related and not that I you know, I think that I could have become a mathematician had I hadn't been nurtured. But I have been undoing those talking points, those common talking points for women and girls in my mind over the last year or so because I realized that I'm actually not bad at math. And it is not as scary as I think we are sometimes made to believe and feel things is. by any means and I also realized that even if it were in finance it's not you know it's not like accounting where it literally is you know equations and facts and figures it is much more planning and strategy of numbers and finances so planning and strategy yeah right definitely yes yeah yeah yeah and I can still find X and Y. No, I love that. I love that because I remember growing up. So in middle school, I had the same math teacher for seventh and eighth grade. I was junior high school then seventh and eighth grade. And she wasn't the best math teacher. She padded her grades. So at the time they had these Campbell soup labels that you could bring in for. The school can submit them for funding or something and so she would we could bring those in for extra credit So I would bring them in for extra credit and got like A's and B's instead of asking questions if I didn't understand like I Didn't need to because I have my goal was to get an a not to understand math at 11 years old 12 13 years old, right? So I there was some gaps in my math comprehension And when I got to geometry, which I loved, they, and I had a different teacher, a really good teacher, so held me accountable. I started to recognize that, but then, you know, you get to high school and the classes at algebra is the basis of, you know, and they're just like expecting you to kind of know it and get it. So I struggled a little bit, but not so much that a little tutoring and filling in the gaps. wouldn't have helped, but I kind of figured I'm not good at math. Like you said, you kind of take on this identity of I'm not good at it because I'm not making an A in it easily, you know, and took that with me. So when I got to college and I was like, what are you going to major in? I didn't even consider math science. I was like, no, no, no, no, that's too hard. So I was like, I'll major in English because I can write and read, you know, and yes, but fast forward now that I'm an adult and I do have to. examine facts and figures in my work as a business lawyer and I really enjoy it. I was talking to my husband and I was like, I'm not great at math. And he goes, what? He says, no, you're really good at math. And he's in my opinion, much better at math than me. And so then I started kind of think about it. No, I liked math. I was good at it. But as I just explained the circumstances kind of allow me to take on an identity that I wasn't. Yeah, what I'm doing, yes. And it's so interesting how you mentioned college because I remember in college, my dad was encouraging me to major in finance. And he's like, you know, your taste is a little more, a little too expensive to not be around money and stuff like that. And he's like, you really should think about this. And so I was like, and I think it was those. talking points, which actually did not come from either of my parents, but wherever they came from that were in my mind that kind of had me like, I don't want to go and major in math. And, you know, of course now fast forward all these years, I am literally working in finance, but I definitely remember him, you know, in current, and I did major in consumer economics and finance, but it was. it was kind of a way for me to like do it a little bit but not, you know, dive all the way in. No regrets, but I see now why I had the hesitancy of even trying. Right. Yep. Okay, great. Great conversation. All right, so you have had during your legal career a long impressive career in state and city government. What was your first position in government and how did you end up there? I believe it was an internship. Yes, so I, and actually, you know what I forgot about? I worked in the building department as an admin in the Village of Broadview. And it was just in the summer, I did it for two summers. My first two, no, the summer going into my freshman year and the summer between my freshman and sophomore year. And I really liked it. I loved working for the suburb where we lived. and working in the building department was really cool. It was interesting just learning about how local government worked in a pretty small community and specifically in the building department. So that was pretty cool. But where things really took off for me was when I worked in then state Rep Karen Yarbrough's office. And I was like, I started off as a volunteer for her and it turned into an internship and I worked on a number of things with her. I had just finished law school a few months before. This was right after passing the bar and getting sworn in in Illinois. And my corporate job in Kraft Foods was moving to Pennsylvania. And I knew, I'm like, I just passed the Illinois bar. I am not moving to Pennsylvania to do this. So I... I started volunteering and interning, then interning in her office. And I got to work on a lot of things with her. Bills that she was still working on through the summer, a lot of constituent engagement. I went to some caucus meetings with her and just really learned a lot about what it was like for her with being a state rep. I believe that was... It may have been an election year. Well, we have elections like almost every year in Illinois. But she was the leader of the local Democratic organization. So also getting to see things on the both on the government side and the political side. I got to really learn a lot. And I remember one of my friends who worked in the office mentioned one time, she's like, maybe she can help you find a job in Springfield. And So I'm a big city girl. I'll just say that. And you know, a little big city, like that's my vibe. And I'd only been in Springfield a couple of times in life at that point. And I knew, I'm like, I just moved from Champaign a few years ago. So when she said that to me in my mind, I was like, mm -mm, no way. But the state rep took me to Springfield with her for a veto session that fall. And I was just so blown away. Like she introduced me to people on staff and I got to understand what it is that they, you know, what that they do. I knew that there, I understood the legislature, but I didn't know all the layers behind it and what really made it go. And I also, I got to meet, you know, some lobbyists and some people who worked as legislative liaisons for. other government agencies and it just was really, really intriguing. And I remember sitting in the house gallery and watching them do session. And what I've seen them do from when I started working there up through even through now in the way that I'm still watching, they really weren't, it wasn't anything too major. And usually veto sessions are kind of low key, but I just say that to say that it was even just that amount of. work that they were doing and it just really drew me in. It was just so, invigorating. So she encouraged me to apply for the house Democrats legal team. And I was like, okay, you know, I knew that she went back and forth. She did not live in Springfield. She, you know, we stayed a couple of nights when we went in. so I applied and I did, end up getting the job and found out I had to move to Springfield. So. Okay, so you, how did you, I know that moving to Springfield was not something that you wanted to do, because you just mentioned you're a big city girl. And I think, you know, over time, you've had some other instances where you were like, no, I don't want to do that. And then you ended up doing it anyway. And you talk a bit more about that. Yes, so like I mentioned, well, I kind of split the difference on it a little bit with my major in college. I did not want to major in finance and here we are in finance. I did not want to move to Springfield, but actually even before that, I didn't even want to work in government. And I don't know how I had kind of, I think in the moment I kind of lost sight of how much I enjoyed working. in the building department in the Village Abroad view, but yeah, I think I had just kind of disconnected that. And coming out of law school, I wanted to be a fashion lawyer because I really enjoy intellectual property and business law and media and things like that. So I had like tailored the last really probably year and a half, two years of law school to be a fashion sports entertainment lawyer and But the economic downturn when I graduated was like girl pick something else So yeah, it was a few things there that I consistently was like no, I don't want to do that and even after working on Working on the house Dems legal team, which I really really enjoyed it was so so major for my career, definitely changed the trajectory of my career. And I knew I did want to come back to Chicago. I wanted to work for the city somehow, but I said I didn't want to be a lobbyist. And then I ended up applying to work in the mayor's office on the Springfield team and became a lobbyist for the city, in -house lobbyist for the city. Okay, all right. So before we get into what you did as a lobbyist and then where you ended up being senior advisor to Mayor Rahm Emanuel, which is so incredible because like I said before, we talked, you didn't even mention that until like toward the end. And I'm like, wait a minute. So we'll get to that. The lesson that I'm hearing, because you know, you... didn't want to do something, didn't want to major in finance and ended up doing it anyway, and it was beneficial for you. You didn't want to go to Springfield, but you ended up doing it anyway. The lesson I'm getting is to not close ourselves off from opportunities. We don't see and know everything. We are one person with one set of experiences. If we open ourselves up, to possibilities like the what ifs, the maybes, then we welcome more into our experience. So not to close ourselves off. So I've learned that lesson from you. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, I certainly have to give my parents the credit on that. One thing that my mom has always said to me and still has to say sometimes, because I'm still working on it, but she always says, be patient. And as a kid, she would make me say, patient with her. And I knew enough then, even at three, four, five years old, that I didn't like patience. But that has definitely been helpful. And... My dad often tells me that the key to success is doing the things that no one likes to do. And so those were things that I would keep in mind even when I'm like, well, I don't want to move to Springfield. And he's like, but I do want to do this job. Or I didn't want to major in finance, which like I said, now I can unwrap and understand more why. But I sort of did with a... combined major and I didn't want to I didn't think I wanted to be a lobbyist and then I end up getting to work not only for the city but in the mayor's office which is like you know like the kind of the most city the most city job of city jobs and for one of the most self -proclaimed political people there is.-hmm. Mm -hmm. I think in thinking about both of those lessons that my parents actually still continue to share with me, that is how I ended up still pushing myself to do these things that I either was uncertain about or really probably didn't know enough about. And they definitely still worked out very, very well for me. Yes, awesome. So, yeah, we're always balancing our values, our goals, our desires. You know, I feel like those three things and maybe even a fourth one, our needs, always balancing them. And if we can consciously, if we can be aware of that consciously, because so like with Springfield, that wasn't necessarily a desire, but you. your goal, like that particular position, that job in your career, that was a big goal for you. And even a desire and maybe even a need on some level. And so you prioritize these things. You're like, okay, well, I want this more than I don't want to live in Springfield, so let's go. Yes, yes. All right. So working for Mayor Rahm Emanuel's administration, tell how long were you there? What were the positions that you held in the administration? I reflect so fondly on that time in my life. I really enjoyed, I should say those jobs because I had three roles while I was there. I was there pretty much the entire two terms. I started about four months after he got in and left when he did. So I started off on the state government lobbying team and I was in that role for about two years and then... When my boss left, then I was promoted to lead the Springfield team, which was something I really, really wanted. And so I, it's interesting because there, as you were reflecting on how I was talking about my career path, and it was things that I didn't necessarily want to do, I really wanted that job. And. there was like a heart emoji that everybody could see, I'd be like putting that up because when you get something that you really love, that you really want, I love that. I love that for you. really wanted that job and I was so excited to get it. And I just, I really enjoyed it. I feel like again, like working for then state rep, Karen Yarbrough, who went on to become other things and unfortunately passed away a couple of months ago, but working in her office was a huge... huge like milestone in my career and so was becoming deputy director of legislative council and government affairs. That was so huge for me. And like I said, plus also it was something I wanted versus like, I gotta like find out, okay, this was good for me, it worked out. Like, no, I really wanted that job and I loved it. And I really, I. I remember someone telling me one time in the Capitol, like, you know, you're the mayor down here. And I, you know, just kind of latched it out there like, no, when people need to know what's going on with the city and, you know, they have questions or need to, you know, a position on a bill and all that kind of stuff, like that's on you. And so then I was like, snap. But I took that very seriously because it meant a lot to me to represent the city that I love and to know that I was doing something, hopefully, to protect all of the people in this great city and do some things to move the ball forward for Chicago. So how long did it take you to embrace that? So someone says, you're the mayor down here, which means you didn't quite understand the shoes that you were in. So how long did it take you to own that? What was that process like? thankfully my mentor, who was the city's lobbyist at the time, one of our contract lobbyists, he, was very, very helpful, in making sure actually not only that I was ready for the job before I got into the deputy role, but that I, knew what I was supposed to be doing, which was different from just being on the team versus leading the team. So he was very, very major in that. And actually both of our contract lobbyists were. They were extremely helpful to me because they had had careers in Springfield and in government period and knew everybody and everything. And so it was really helpful for them to not only give me the wisdom and knowledge and guidance, but also to empower me and position me in a way of like, She is in charge here. I have to check with her. She, you know, and in my mind, I'm like, no, I'll come and check it with you. But for them to be such great allies for me and to really empower me in a way that then other people are like, well, we got to talk to Victoria, you know? And I think I really realized that I would say this to a legislative session is like January through the very end of May. and things like really, really get going in March. And so it probably was like into the March time when session was really moving that I started to like get a feel for like how things should go, how my days would be a little different than they had been before stepping into this role. But I also had to realize in some of the meetings that I would be in, that I would be the only other of any sort. but a lot of times would kind of have the most power. And I say that to say like, I would be the only woman, I'd be the only person of color, but I would be, and sometimes I'd be the only lawyer, but I would be in there representing the most people. So it would be really important that I say where this, you know, what the city's position is, and that I explain why, you know, this is, if this is good for us or it isn't or whatever. And I think that part was really important for me to understand because it may look like I don't fit in in a meeting, but it is extremely important that what I am expressing in the meeting gets across because, you know, I mean, Chicago is the biggest city in the state and quite honestly, the economic engine. So I gotta make sure I'm doing my part when I was in those. I just hear so, so much richness in what you just said. You see so many wonderful articles, you know, for women in leadership to learn from you and what you were just saying. I love that. Just stepping into your own, owning responsibility, demanding respect, leveraging your mentors and sponsors. Just so much in there. Love it. Yes, thank you. Okay, so now you made a major pivot. You built this beautiful career in city and state government, which you enjoyed and loved. Like as you're talking about it, you're shining. And how did you know that it was time for you to leave that? And then what did you decide to step into after that? I'm just gonna tell everybody it was venture capital and private equity world, which it sounds like. That's two completely different worlds. Yeah, yeah. So I, it was kind of two things. One, I, like I said, I loved being the lobbyist for the city and my team was great and I was in that role for four years. And like I said, the whole time I was with the city, but definitely that time I reflect very fondly on that. It was a great experience. But I also knew it was time for me to not be going up and back between Chicago and Springfield anymore. So I was again, very, very honored and I didn't have my eye on this spot to become senior advisor. So that was something that I was really excited about and looked forward to, you know, being able to step into and get to work on things for the city that were inclusive of legislative matters, but. all across the board. And that also helped me to build a lot of other relationships, and particularly with the business community and neighborhood organizations. I worked a lot with our public engagement team and the entire senior staff. So that was a wonderful experience. But the same way Mayor Emanuel said when he was leaving, I felt this exact quote when he said, being mayor of Chicago was the job of a lifetime, not the job for a lifetime. And I felt that way too. And so before he announced that he wasn't gonna run, I was like, I think it's time, you know, I gotta figure out my next steps here because I can do this forever, but I would literally not do anything else. And I had other passions and interests. And of course, working in the mayor's office, everything's a conflict. So you can't have too many side things. You know, the ethics department will not allow. So I knew I'm like, it's time for me to move on. And I knew definitely I wanted to start my tea company and I wanted to be promoting my children's book. So those things for sure I wanted to happen. But I also wanted to do work in social responsibility. And I figured I actually might at the time still be doing a little bit of lobbying, but. I feel like too much compares to lobbying for the city. So it was been like, you know, a turn down for sure. And that's how I ended up actually over at Ariel Investments. And I was chief of staff to John Rogers there, which was such a great experience. I loved working with him on his social justice priorities. He's the founder of the company. So I realize now. myself as a founder and entrepreneur, that I was also taking those types of lessons from him. And he's also chief investment officer. So I got to sit in a lot of investment committee meetings and meetings with prospects and clients and portfolio companies. And it was when I really started to realize I had to eat. pro on telling my dad I didn't want to major in finance. But yeah, it was an opportunity to really learn a lot and open my eyes to the private investing space. I did a lot of miscellaneous things as Chief of Staff too, and that included getting to look at investment opportunities that people were sending directly to. Sort of to the company, but also to my boss personally, which were outside of our product offerings, but still worked out well for me because it really sparked something in me that I grew and interested in and got to really start diving in and learning a lot. Okay, so sounds very interesting. So I heard you say like the common thread from what you did in government to what you moved into in the private equity VC space is social responsibility. And that makes a lot of sense. So a person can pivot into something completely new. And I can see like you're also shining because you were learning something new. You were learning the... the VC, you know, private equity space. And that's exciting. It's like, whoa, you know, so you allowed something that was important to you that you had spent a lot of time in, you know, throughout your, your public service career, propel you into something else exciting. So we're always learning and you were open, which is great, but you didn't shut it down. This is, this has nothing to do with. government, like how am I going to continue to build a career here? You're like, no, this is, this is new. This is exciting. And that's great. I love that. Yeah. So you, so you are at Ariel investments. I can hear that you're in the story. You're at the end of your tenure there. There are some, investing opportunities that come into the company that they aren't able to necessarily support. And you see an opportunity there. Love that opportunity. What did you do with that opportunity? So I, it really just made me think about the private investing space in a different way. And it started to see the idea of, you know, if I could find opportunities for people that they were interested in and do the diligence for them, that could close a gap in the space and kind of be on the opposite side of people who are looking for money and have to ask, You have to turn every stone, obviously, when you are looking for money, and that's totally understandable. But that also means that on the other side, people are kind of sorting through things that we know are not going to be a fit for one reason or another. And so I figured, well, if I can go out into the marketplace and look specifically for what my clients are looking for and bring them those opportunities. we would get a different type of traction than being on the other side saying like, I just got to find anybody and I got to find good fits, yes, but I got to talk to any and everybody to see who can invest with me. I knew it made it clear to me that I wanted to be on the other side. So that's how I came up with the idea for enrichment. Okay, awesome. Enrichment. So I was going to say, what's the name of your company? Tell us. It's called Enrichment. So how can we find you? What types of investors are you looking for? Can you talk a bit about that? Because I asked you this question, one question for myself the other day. I was like, Victoria, what's the range of investments that you bring in to your company? Like how? so with enrichment, and enrichment is spelled with I's wherever you would put an E, so I-N -R -I -C -H -I -N -T, and it's enrichment .com. And what we do is we help investors find private businesses to invest in. So we are consultants for investors and work on their behalf. And the focus areas of our... clients, it kind of overlap, but it's family offices and people always say if you've seen one family office, you've seen one family office because a family office can look a bunch of different ways. It can look like, we'll say like the Ford Foundation or the Ford family, Ford Motors. It can be like that where there is a deal team and a philanthropy team and full staff and everything, or it can be like the family, their lawyer and their accountant. and they got a LLC set up and a trust set up and they meet once a week for dinner or something. So a family office has many different formations. The second group is high net worth individuals or families also, but folks who maybe have exited a business and are trying to figure out how they are going to kind of get to that family office level of. creating and continuing to grow generational wealth. It could also be entrepreneurs, people who have been financially successful in their careers in whatever way that is and realize, you know, maybe I should be using this disposable income to invest and grow this wealth instead of, you know, buying another whatever that might depreciate instead of something that will appreciate. And the third category is current and retired professional athletes who are also looking to do more private investing and growing generational wealth. So that's the point of all of this is really definitely helping both sides to grow generational wealth. But like I said, we work on behalf of investors, people who are looking to place capital in private businesses. It's all very exciting. I see why you're in it. And it's just so, so many possibilities and so much opportunity for growth, like for you, for the company, for other people that you're servicing. It's just amazing. I love it. Thank you. Thank you. So, you know, we as women don't always realize that it's okay to embrace that we are three-dimensional beings when it comes to our career journeys. We don't just have to do and be one thing all the time. And you are showing us that. So three things that I have pulled out that you enjoy doing that have... nothing to do with finance or lobbying, fashion and entertainment, your online tea shop, and your children's book. So let's talk about each of those. And you've already kind of talked about fashion and entertainment a little bit. You wanted to be a fashion lawyer, but the market did not support that when you graduated from school. So you picked something else. How do you... How do you embrace that part of yourself? I embrace that part. I, by one, I have rekindled my fashion law blog. Well, I guess it's more now like a lifestyle blog because I branched out from writing just about fashion law, but that's how it started. And that's how I was able to still keep my hands in that space, even though I knew I wasn't going to be doing that nine to five when I started working in government. So I would also speak on panels. I've written some articles in legal magazines and spoken for bar associations and things like that. And I'm happy to be getting back into doing more of that over the last couple of years or so. So that's really how I say into it. I also do some consulting for creatives and designers. and now that I, certainly I'm working more in the investment space. I really, I would love to be able to do, investing in like fashion and beauty brands. So, if you want to invest in those companies, please call me. but, but yeah, that's how I'm able to still stay in, in the fashion and creative space. As I mentioned, like current and retired professional athletes are one of our focus areas for enrichment. And, you know, I, I grew up. the daughter of a basketball coach and I played basketball too. So I mean, sports in general, I enjoy, you know, with basketball is close to my heart. And so that's how I stay looped in there. For my tea shop, I've always loved tea. So I'm just going to add the little something here about the fashion piece. No, no, I get it. So as I'm starting to put a newsletter together to put out monthly to my audience, I'm going to have a fashion column and a beauty column because that's just fun for me, right? So we buy these beauty products, we have fun with them, we go shopping and pay attention to what we wear. I mean, that's fun. I feel like women want to hear about that. So. Yes. Not nearly. Google.-Shop. So you have an online T -Shop. What's it called? It's called Joy and Magic. Joy and Magic, girl, that's a beautiful name, Joy and Magic. So I'm gonna say you're a tea expert. I'm just gonna say that. So if I wanted or someone wanted a special blend of teas to drink in the evening to relax, what would you recommend? I would recommend one of two or two of our teas. So one of them, Joy and Peace is very relaxing. It's caffeine free, obviously. And you don't want to be cranking it up in the evening. It is very calming, has spearmint in it as one of the most active leaves and is very, very soothing. Mm -hmm. there's mint in it, but when I get fresh mint, sometimes I'll add a little bit to it. So that's another thing about Joy and Magic is we have recipes where you can take your tea up a level and maybe you pair it with spirits or you can pair it with, you know, fresh fruit and things like that. When you use tea as the liquid in your smoothies and all those fun things. So, yeah, yeah. I didn't know. And spearmint, I didn't realize that that was a calming agent. I mean, when I think spearmint, like I'm smelling it, it's vibrant, it's waking me up, like in my mind, I didn't realize that it actually is calming me down too. That's good to know. Okay. one is definitely helpful to calm down and wind down. And Love and Magic is another one that is very good to wind down your day. It's an herbal tea with a passion fruit flavor and obviously also caffeine free. And so I really enjoy that one too. So it kind of depends if I'm looking for something just maybe a tad bit sweeter, I would do Love and Magic, Joy and Peace, I would do if I didn't need, you know, just that little spark of sweetness, but you can add honey to either one of them. I try to choose honey instead of sugar because I'd rather get my sugar from a chocolate chip cookie. Okay, so what in the love and magic is sweet? Because when I hear sweet, I'm thinking honey, sugar, what? it's the passion fruit flavor and hibiscus that gives it the sweetness. Yeah. good to know. Okay, so your children's book, what is the name of it? The name of the book is Little Valerie and her Big World of Options. And Little Valerie is named after my mom, who spent her career as an educator, both in the classroom and as a reading specialist. And she then later was director of reading for, director of literacy for her school district. And was then, her last role was as director of grants and special assessment. So. major major educator and a huge advocate of reading and I've always loved writing. Like I used to write poetry a lot in junior high and high school. I think because I liked writing so much and we had a really good English department in my high school, I think that probably also kept me away from math. I was like, well, you can't do both. So I really like writing. So I must not be a math person, but I guess you can do both. exactly. So yeah, but in the story, Valerie goes to school and learns about numbers and she's really excited and she's like, my gosh, what can I be when I grow up? Because I like numbers and her teacher tells her about all of the options that she has in life and rattles off a list of different things. And so the goal there is for one, the book to be a part of a series and I'm working on the next couple of stories. But also for little ones to know they have so many options in life and that their world is much bigger than they may realize that it is. Yes, yes. And I remember, this book is important to me because I think it's so critical for people or children to be exposed to different opportunities. It's important for them to be able to see themselves doing different things, not just a teacher, firefighter, police officer, doctor, lawyer. Those are five, you know. the five major things that I was presented with as a child. And I didn't know that there was something that existed such as a private equity investor. I didn't know, I don't even think I thought about something as interesting as, I'm gonna cut this out. The point that I'm making is like now that I'm in corporate America and I see all these, different jobs and opportunities that people have. And I had no clue existed, but that would have been great. So I love what you're doing with your book. Thank you. Thank you so much. More coming. Awesome. Can you tell us what the next one might be about? So I don't know exactly yet. I have some young testers who are gonna give me some feedback because I have two stories that I've written and they will tell me what the next one will be and then the other one will follow that. So yeah. Okay, so this has been wonderful talking to you today. I've loved it and I'm sure the audience and listeners are loving it too and gonna get a lot out of it. Every guest leaves her pivot pearl of wisdom. What would you like to leave us with today? Because you had some amazing pivots in your life. I would say. How do I want to say it? Pause when you feel no. Because that is something that I've definitely had to learn until now when I find myself saying, no, I don't want to do that. I'm not interested. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait. This could be the best thing ever for me. And I think that's something that I have learned. Don't say what you won't do because you don't know how it might turn out. Hmm. I love that. I felt that pause. I love that. Thank you very, very much for being on the podcast. I've had a good time today. Me too. This was so great. Thank you so much. Alrighty.