Dr. Summer Hamilton: Owning Your Voice – The Power of Self-Advocacy and Bold Career Moves

In this engaging conversation, Dr. Summer Hamilton shares her journey from a small town in Arkansas to her current role at the Smithsonian American Women's History Museum. She discusses her upbringing, the impact of her family dynamics, and the challenges she faced in her education and career. Summer emphasizes the importance of self-advocacy, finding one's voice, and the significance of pursuing work that aligns with personal values. Her story is one of resilience, growth, and the pursuit of happiness in both personal and professional realms.

Chapters

• 0:00 Summer's Early Life and Upbringing
• 11:24 Navigating Religion and Education
• 23:23 College Experience and Personal Growth
• 31:37 Finding Meaningful Work in Academia
• 40:19 The Importance of Mentorship and Support
• 43:45 The Power of Asking for What You Want

Transcript

Rhonda Coleman (00:00)
Hi Summer, welcome to the podcast. Yes, yes, thank you for being on. I'm so excited to talk to you today. I really enjoyed our prep session.

Summer Hamilton (00:03)
Hi, thank you for having me.

Rhonda Coleman (00:13)
learned so much about you that I didn't know, So we're going to get into some of that today. Just to set it up for our listeners, we're going to start by exploring summer's beginnings.

move into her education and then explore her career trajectory because Summer has had some really cool positions with every move that she's made that's been intentional. She's been clear in what she wanted in each role and I have observed that with each move that Summer has made, talking to the audience, she's

had an even more clear, understanding of who she is as a woman in this world and what she wants. And so that was fun for me to observe. All right, Summer. So you grew up in Osceola, Arkansas. Mm-mm-mm, girl.

Summer Hamilton (01:20)
population

of 8,081.

Rhonda Coleman (01:24)
8,081 that is nobody. I live in Chicago now and that is like half of my neighborhood. What was that like? I know you grew up there but you're not from there so just give us a sense of the beginnings of your life, your upbringing, your family structure, etc.

Summer Hamilton (01:26)
What?

Yeah.

Yeah, so I grew up there, as you mentioned. I wasn't born there. So was born in North Carolina. My dad was raised, his family's from North Carolina, but he was raised in Brooklyn. And my mom grew up in Arkansas. And they decided to move, they met in Arkansas, decided to move to North Carolina. And then when I was around four, they separated. My mom went back to Arkansas with us, took myself, my older brother.

And my dad followed and did the, I guess, his big moves or something. So they reconciled. And so I grew up, basically by the time of school age, I grew up in Arkansas. and as I said, Oceola, population 8,081, it's a very rural town, but has at McDonald's, a Walmart, right? I think maybe four, maybe four stoplights? I may be over counting.

Rhonda Coleman (02:41)
Wow.

Summer Hamilton (02:44)
And at the time that I grew up, was, it's still segregated, but it was highly segregated where it was actually like the railroad track was almost the marker. you know, graduating high school, a time when they had two, you know, two proms, when they had like the high school court, they would have, they had to, it was like a rule, pick one white maid, one black maid, you know? So like, it was just very...

Rhonda Coleman (02:55)
Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (03:12)
Race was in the front of everything all the time, constantly.

Rhonda Coleman (03:18)
Okay, let's go back a step. What was this one black, one white? Can you explain that to me again, please?

Summer Hamilton (03:19)
Yeah.

Yeah, so, for a

homecoming court, you know, you have the queen and then you have the maids, right? And so, because it was, I guess it was sort of like a way to like force diversity. And so, you had to choose, you know, and so this also assumes that there is no one of any other race going to be, right? But they had to choose for each, was like a senior maid, a sophomore maid, junior maid, freshman, then they had to choose one black girl, one white

Rhonda Coleman (03:31)
Yeah?

huh.

Summer Hamilton (03:56)
For each of those like and and you know, what's funny though is that I didn't know that wasn't normal until Right and I'm talking about this and someone's like wait what you know, because it's just That's just how it is it's very And yeah, like you couldn't when I tried to get jobs in high school So I was like my mom was a teacher high school English teacher my dad

Rhonda Coleman (03:57)
my goodness.

Yeah.

Wow. Wow.

Summer Hamilton (04:24)
was the executive director of Section 8 Housing. So we were, you know, middle class for Arkansas, right? I was known as a little smart kid. You know, I had been known as a smart kid. I was a teacher's kid and smart kid and stuff. But when it came time to get a job where, so I knew this already. I wanted to get a job at the pharmacy. I wanted to get one of the cushy jobs in town, you know, because, and a lot of black kids worked at the factory or a restaurant. And my white school friends worked at

Rhonda Coleman (04:31)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (04:54)
the pharmacy, offices, things like that. And so I was like, I want that job. then, you know, we all knew the story. Like they just don't hire you, but I was like, I'm going to make them tell me that. And so, I think, and they didn't hire me. I went to these places just for the, I just wanted them to have a little discomfort, you know? Like, know, it was just so funny. I was a little activist, guess, whatever, but like at 17.

Rhonda Coleman (04:58)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (05:23)
You don't get to just not hire us and not deal with it. And so I would go to them to make them go through the discomfort of saying, she's looking for an application. So anyway.

Rhonda Coleman (05:27)
Right, right.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

And this was not that long ago because Summer and I are of the same age. We're not old people, okay? So while we're dealing with what we're dealing with now in our nation when our government doesn't think that diversity, equity, and inclusion is important, it is because what happens when you don't encourage or educate people to be inclusive?

Summer Hamilton (05:43)
No.

Yeah.

Rhonda Coleman (06:07)
They don't do it. Yes.

Summer Hamilton (06:08)
Right, right, exactly.

yeah, so that's another part of my defining part besides, so racism was a defining part of my childhood, but religion was also a defining part. And that was my mom, it still is a very devout Jehovah's Witness. And so she raised us, my dad identifies as agnostic or did at the time. So she raised us to be witnesses.

And it's a, and especially, so it's a strict religion anyway. But my mom loves a rule. She was an English teacher. think because I really, I really think it's because of grammar and that she could measure. She likes to measure things and measure how, I would even say how perfect she can be, how close to perfect she can be. And so this is, so if you're looking for that great religion for you. Because there are so many rules by which you can say, am I good? You know?

Rhonda Coleman (06:43)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Summer Hamilton (07:06)
And so she, whatever the extreme version of the religion was, that's the one she practiced. And so, of course there's no holidays, but then she would also like, no participating. And she just come up with extra stuff that she couldn't do.

Rhonda Coleman (07:06)
Mm-hmm.

Because she

wanted to get extra credit. Yes, ma'am.

Summer Hamilton (07:30)
So, yeah, so that was that was how I grew up and that that affected, know, again, just like, yeah, my friendships and who I could hang out with and when I can hang out. And it also made me so I read a lot. I couldn't do.

Rhonda Coleman (07:30)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (07:51)
So books were my friends. I read a lot. it also affected, and I don't know if we're going to talk about that soon, but it affected when it came to college, what my choices were, what my options were as well. Should I go ahead and?

Rhonda Coleman (07:53)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, well, before we move into that, I just think it's so interesting that you had one parent who was very religious, like devout, and then an agnostic father, one parent who grew up in the South, it sounds like, and one who, although from the South, grew up in Brooklyn, New York City. So what was that like? What was your dad's influence in your life?

Summer Hamilton (08:18)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

that's such a great question. Very observant. So what I have always said about that, I mean, I don't know how they found each other. I mean, you wanted some evidence where opposites attract. Although my dad says that if I know my mom pre-religion, she's not so opposite as when I was a child, you know. But so.

Rhonda Coleman (08:47)
Ha!

Mm-hmm.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

Summer Hamilton (09:03)
I'll start here and I'll go back. But I would say one of the things that when I think back now, especially as a grownup and thinking about how different they were and growing up with that, is how it has made me, I think, have a really open mind when it comes to people. There's not a lot that phases me when it comes to people. You just never know who someone is. And you can love all sorts of people. because I had to love these very, very, very different people, neither one of them was wrong.

Rhonda Coleman (09:22)
Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (09:33)
in my eyes, you know. And I'm appreciative of both as I become older because it's funny, I was listening to this book today, it's McConaughey's memoir actually where he was talking about like this sort of the way that you had, he called it, the way he phrased it was conservative at the beginning, liberal later, but basically like you have these boundaries and things to teach you and then you can like break the rules later. So I would say like my mom,

Rhonda Coleman (09:33)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (10:02)
her strictness, like I learned boundaries and I learned very much, definitely learned boundaries. My dad has a very free spirit. I would even say hippie approach to the world. He's whenever I, if I ask him for advice, he's like, you know, what makes you happy? What are you happy? Do you feel happy? You know, and my mom's like, is it right? Is it right? Right. You know, and so I feel like it gave me a balance, honestly.

Rhonda Coleman (10:08)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's what I'm hearing,

for sure.

Summer Hamilton (10:33)
Yeah, and so I

stretch, but I know where the line is, you know? And I'll get all the way on it, for sure. But I enjoy that. know, so I think I would say it gave me some understanding of how to enjoy freedom, I would say, in a safe way.

Rhonda Coleman (10:38)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. No, that's

great. I love that, I love that. So you're growing up in the witness religion, which is an organized religion, you know, so it's got its drawbacks for sure. And one of those things is that it does not support going to college, but you were super smart. You're a valedictorian of your class. You made it to college. Can you tell us about that?

how that happened.

Summer Hamilton (11:25)
Yeah, yeah, was, so my brother, you know, was older and I also have a half sister, but she didn't live with us. And so she had more freedom in her household in terms of college. But my brother already had gone before and I had seen how that went. And so like, it's a, so the witness religion,

Now I would describe it as a doomsday cult. It took me a long time to get there. But what I would say, the way I thought of it even then though, is that basically it preaches that this world is temporary and that we're going to, it's going to come to an end and the earth will become paradise, blah, blah, blah. And so what you need to do is spend all your time warning people.

Rhonda Coleman (11:52)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (12:17)
that this is gonna happen, you know? And so don't invest in this world in any way. So that means, why would you go to college? Because if you're going to college, then that means you don't have faith because you don't believe that this is gonna end. You believe that you need to prepare for this world instead of the next. So going to college is a real, it's really, it's not a rule, because there are actual rules to religion. It's not a rule, but what did I tell you about my mom? So.

Rhonda Coleman (12:34)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (12:47)
She's going for it, right, for the extra credit. Although my mom was a teacher, she was educated, very well educated, loved education. But when it came to that, she really believed this world is ending and so do this thing. So my brother wanted to go, was not allowed to go, was very much discouraged to go. You might say, I would say, I would just use the word he wasn't allowed, I would say.

Rhonda Coleman (12:49)
Right, right.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (13:15)
And

so he did go to a junior college. That was the compromise that he was able to make to do that. Because it was just like, again, he was going to learn a trade. You could do enough to be able to support yourself so that you can go and preach the word. Everything revolves around that goal of preaching the word. And so when my time was up,

Rhonda Coleman (13:27)
Mm-hmm.

got it hmm I'm really I'm really trying hard to hold

back my opinions just in case I have some witnesses who listen to my podcast no if they're listening to my podcast there they they are listening they feel you that's what yes

Summer Hamilton (13:50)
They probably already turn me off in.

Okay. True, true.

And so, yeah, so as you said, I was an alt-A student and I tested where I had high test scores and there was a woman in the religion who was like 10 years older than me. She was from what we call up north. That's what we say. She was from up north.

Rhonda Coleman (14:25)
Okay.

Summer Hamilton (14:26)
And

she had moved down to that car. She and her brother had moved down there in order to like help out. It's called serve where the need is greater. So come to a rural area and help, you know, like missionaries of some sort. Right. And but she was super cool and she was a black woman. And she always tell me she's somebody I mean, I met her when I was like 12 or 13. And she was just like in my ear constantly saying, you are so smart. You are so smart. And she would just like, you know,

Rhonda Coleman (14:38)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (14:54)
just talk of my creative skills. just really, I hadn't ever had anyone really affirm me or say things like that to me, you know? And so when it got closer to me going to college, she started saying, you have to go to college. And I was like, blasphemy. And she convinced me, you know, she was just like, this is a waste. You have to go to college. And so she starts getting brochures about engineering. So she's trying all these different ways and she would send me these,

Rhonda Coleman (15:00)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes, exactly.

Summer Hamilton (15:24)
companies that did these amazing engineering projects. And I love puzzles and all this kind of stuff. And she was just like, you could do this. You could be an engineer. And so she's like, listen, here's how you go into college, basically. So if you get a trade, you're allowed. And so go to college for a trade, and then say that you're going to serve at the headquarters.

Rhonda Coleman (15:35)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (15:49)
in order, so basically you are dedicating your life to the service, but in another way, you're using your mind, right? You're gonna be someone who contributes intellectually. And so, you didn't phrase it that way, but that's what it was, right? So, it wasn't a trick actually, that's what the plan was. I was gonna go to school, major in engineering, because you definitely weren't gonna major in English or something that they didn't feel like, you you get too many of the worldly ideas if you do that. So, go to school for engineering, and then that way.

Rhonda Coleman (15:57)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (16:18)
I could do it, you know. that's what I did. So it's what, senior year, February, and I'm like, okay, I guess I'm going to college, you know. thankfully, because, and so I just called the college that my best friend was gonna go to, my best friend in Arkansas, I called the college she was going to, and because of my scores, they made a way, you know. They were like, okay, here's scholarship money, because my mom said she was paying for nothing.

Rhonda Coleman (16:30)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (16:47)
And such things

like if you're going, then you're paying for it all. Somebody else is paying because I'm not. And so, yeah, so I was able to get in to college. The question of where I would stay became another thing, but.

Rhonda Coleman (16:52)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah,

yeah. Well, thank God for that angel, you know, that the universe put in. Thank you. Thank God for Monique, being in your world and encouraging you to go to college because that was definitely important. Right.

Summer Hamilton (17:09)
Yeah, I'll shout her out, Monique.

Mm-hmm.

Absolutely, absolutely. I definitely, I don't think I would have to be really honest.

I really don't think I would have.

Rhonda Coleman (17:29)
Yeah,

think we have guardian angels who look out for us and put people and experiences in our path.

Summer Hamilton (17:33)
Yeah.

Yeah, I'll say this part too because I just, I don't know if there are other people, but like a couple years in, I remember my mom telling me about another peer who didn't go to college and she, you know, and she said, she's pioneering, you know, which means that you're dedicating like 90 hours a month to preach the word. So she's like, she's like, and I just, I'm so, I'm so.

ashamed, so embarrassed when I have to tell people that you went to college. I'm so embarrassed. And it was so crushing. Yeah, it was so crushing. so I think even I just, I early on just had to, I don't know, start doing things for myself. I wasn't able to look to a certain source, you know, like what I would have wanted to.

Rhonda Coleman (18:11)
Mm-hmm. So backwards. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Right, right. But that ended up being a good practice for you, having to look within for validation, having to trust your feelings when you didn't even realize you were doing that, learning how to shed off that external need for validation from a parent, which is so, I mean, it's like the center of everything, like wanting your parents validation and.

Summer Hamilton (18:36)
Yeah.

Rhonda Coleman (18:59)
when you can kind of shake that, then you can shake anything almost. You can shake anybody's. But yeah, I know that that hurts. That doesn't feel good when you're rejected by somebody you love. All righty, so you went to college. First year was a little rocky because you couldn't live on campus. You had to live with someone who was in the witness.

Summer Hamilton (19:01)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rhonda Coleman (19:28)
community who wasn't very kind to you. Let's fast forward through that traumatic experience. Let's fast forward to you move on campus sophomore year and you really start to become your own person, to shed off the, cloak of being in the witness community.

Summer Hamilton (19:29)
Yep.

Please, let's fast-forward.

you

Rhonda Coleman (19:55)
Tell us the catalyst for that, because I know a lot of us have trouble, whether it's religion or family or job or whatever, kind of breaking away from something that's not serving us because the weight of the expectations that this is what you're supposed to do is so great. So tell us how you did that at such a young age, like 19.

Summer Hamilton (20:18)
Yeah, I think it started freshman year when I was away from home and I stopped. I didn't want to go to the hall. I didn't want to go to the in service. I didn't want to do it. And that felt very, I could feel that very heavily in me that I did not want to do it. so something that you and I have talked about before is sometimes when I say it, when I ask, what do I want? I'm not sure how to answer that question. One thing I've never had difficulty with is what I don't

Rhonda Coleman (20:45)
Right.

Summer Hamilton (20:48)
heavy when I don't want something, you know, and so, and it also is like difficult for me to keep doing. And so I stopped going and I was for a while, I was lying to my mom, you know, that I was going and that became so heavy. was living, you know, living this double life, right? And that became so heavy. And, and sort of, think that again, this is when my parents sort of like,

Rhonda Coleman (20:51)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Summer Hamilton (21:15)
training comes in because like my dad and his you know like are you happy this thing of happiness and peace right I seek it I whatever I am NOT feeling it I seek peace I seek it and funny enough my mom also taught me about balance she would also she would have me check in with myself sometimes to see I felt balanced you know and so those two things together I just I told my mom one day it's very bluntly I was like I'm not going I don't go I'm not even sick I just don't want to go you know because I just felt and the

Rhonda Coleman (21:20)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (21:45)
freedom, the freedom that I felt of telling the truth, even though it hurt someone, it made me feel wonderful, know, like so light. And so that started it. And then I still was trying for her sake to do it, you know, like in sophomore year, I was still trying for her sake, but I just couldn't. And then I broke one of the rules.

Rhonda Coleman (21:46)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Right.

Summer Hamilton (22:13)
I broke one of the rules and and that and so I was like sort of on this They call it like punishment Anyway, so yeah, but that was that was very freeing for me because I didn't want to do what it took to get back in I knew for sure and and actually breaking the rules was freeing because now I I really had failed her You know, I had disappointed her And I was okay

Rhonda Coleman (22:22)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yes.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, the world did

not fall apart. Everybody kept breathing.

Summer Hamilton (22:43)
Who did not fall apart? Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely that. And so

I didn't go back. I'm not going back. Like, I'm free. I broke this thing, and I'm free. Yeah. Yeah.

Rhonda Coleman (22:56)
Yes, yes, let go, let go of the reins, as someone says.

Yes, and that applies, like I keep saying to anything in anybody's life, you know, that's, if it doesn't feel good, then it's not good, and let go, so you can walk into something much better, much more freeing. Okay, so now let's get into your...

post-college career trajectory, but we got a little marriage in there. Because that's funny, that's juicy, a little love story, you know?

Summer Hamilton (23:27)
I'm married.

Yeah, so yeah, during work study, fell in love with the basketball team, fell in love once. And so, yeah, so I'll say a couple of things about college. One is that I switched my major from engineering to computer science.

Rhonda Coleman (23:44)
Yeah, he was cute, y'all. He was cute. I remember. So I get it.

Summer Hamilton (24:02)
because again, that whole feeling thing, just didn't feel like I was going to be happy in some of the spaces, some of the jobs where mechanical engineering was gonna take me. And so I needed more freedom, which is why I chose computer science because I wanted to be able to work with people, to work anywhere. Everyone needs computers, and so I did that. And yeah, so close to senior year.

Rhonda Coleman (24:10)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (24:30)
The fella and I got married. And we

Rhonda Coleman (24:32)
Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (24:37)
he had he was in a as I was. And I started working. I graduated before him and I started working. I was an admissions counselor and he was still finished in school. And so we just had a little simple little life going, you know, in Memphis and, you know, we're doing things there

So, yeah, so

I had had a job lined up, but I lost that job because I failed a course. Failed a course was, you know, just had too many other things going on in my life. And that was really hard for me.

Rhonda Coleman (25:12)
Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (25:20)
really difficult time because I had something right there that I was excited about and lost it. And so I had to rebuild myself, had to pick myself back up from them. Was pretty down. so there were job, like people were coming to campus to interview and there were jobs in my field and I wasn't applying for them because I just was, I was low. And he had applied for one though and got an interview.

Rhonda Coleman (25:24)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Summer Hamilton (25:46)
And he had had the interview and told me about this company in Dallas and he was really excited about it. And he says, they've got like 10 people applying, you should also apply. And I was like, but they're doing interview. I knew the process. I'm like, they're doing interviews and I didn't even put an application in, it's too late. And he's like, just go see. Well,

Rhonda Coleman (25:56)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (26:04)
thankfully I've been working in admissions. So I was really adept at speaking to people and talking to strangers. And that had trained me how to talk to people, right? And so I went over there.

Rhonda Coleman (26:09)
Yes.

Summer Hamilton (26:16)
cold, walked up to the space where they were interviewing, introduced myself, gave them my resume, and pitched that they should interview me as well. And so,

and they did. So they accepted it, made space to interview me, and I killed it. I remember that. I killed it. And it was like, by the end of it, they're like standing up, cracking up, we're making jokes, you know, and stuff. Yeah. So.

Rhonda Coleman (26:40)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, love it.

Summer Hamilton (26:45)
He and I both would offer jobs in Dallas from that. So yeah. So I love that story as a way of like, you don't always have to follow the rules, right? To make it happen. And so, yes, we got offered jobs in Dallas.

Rhonda Coleman (26:48)
Awesome.

Right.

Cool, cool, there is a theme that runs through Summer's Life, everyone, of asking for what you want, which will come up again when we go through her career trajectory.

Summer Hamilton (27:02)
you

Yeah, yeah, so moved to Dallas, had some time in corporate and realized pretty quickly that corporate was not a fit that at least that job was not a fit for me. And that particular corporate environment was very toxic. was a bit people were, yeah, it's very toxic.

Rhonda Coleman (27:26)
Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (27:36)
cutthroat, people would curse at each other. I mean, when I say toxic, I do mean toxic. And again, it didn't fit right with my spirit. Now I don't know how at 24 I knew my spirit, but I knew it didn't fit well, you know? And I also knew that I wanted to have a baby. And I was like, I just don't feel like I should be in this type of environment carrying a child. I just feel it's too dangerous for me. And so I guess some of my dad's hippie ways.

Rhonda Coleman (27:41)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Summer Hamilton (28:05)
found their way into me. So I left. Well, I started looking for another job. I remember, you know, I was thinking about that job, the toxic job before I left. And I'll just say this little quick story. I got a new boss at that job. And he was very intent on tearing me down, myself and another Black woman who worked there. He would take away our duties, the things that he would say to us. You know, he started, we had big projects. He started having me.

Rhonda Coleman (28:26)
Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (28:34)
make copies and staple papers. I had a degree in computer science and he had it.

Rhonda Coleman (28:37)
my goodness.

Exactly. mean, my, when

I was a teacher, my students liked to do that, you know, so they wouldn't have to do work. You know, that was fun.

Summer Hamilton (28:46)
Right, right. And

he had an administrative assistant, you know, but he, and so the last straw for me was when he said in front of the VP and other important people, and he was thanking everyone for their contributions to the project. And he said, and Summer, who staples our papers for us and sorts them.

Rhonda Coleman (28:54)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

my God, that's awful.

Summer Hamilton (29:17)
So my husband at the time and I worked at the same company and I called him on the office phone and I said, I want to let you know that today might be the day that I'm fired. So I said, because if and when I am asked to staple and sort papers again, I am saying no.

Rhonda Coleman (29:16)
yeah, yeah, I get it.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Summer Hamilton (29:38)
And I was very serious because the

answer is no. And I'm so proud of myself, you know? I'm look back at my young self.

Rhonda Coleman (29:43)
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Yes.

Summer Hamilton (29:48)
And swooned

up, I got called in. I was called to staple papers and I said, I'm not, no, I think I didn't answer the phone, something, I just ignored the text. We had two way pages, I ignored the text. And then I was asked to come to the office. And I went to the office and then I was asked, have a seat. And I remember saying, no, I'll stand, thank you. I don't know why. What was I thinking? I said, no, I'll stand, thank you. And so it's.

Rhonda Coleman (30:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (30:14)
I asked you to, I've been calling you and texting you to staple the papers and I said, I'm not stapling any more papers. I'm not sorting any more papers. I have a degree in computer science and that is what I'm here to do. You have your name listed, her name is Keisha. If you want some staples, some papers, you need to go and call her. One of the greatest moments ever. I did not get fired and I also did not staple any more papers.

Rhonda Coleman (30:24)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Yes!

That's lovely.

Good, wonderful.

Summer Hamilton (30:43)
I started looking immediately for something else. And so I found another space, which was wonderful because I moved over into the academic world, but on the staff side. So I moved over to a university in Dallas, Southern Methodist University, and I was an information specialist. I started, I actually took a big pay cut to make this move, but I knew it was the space I needed to be in. It was a space where I could do work that mattered.

Rhonda Coleman (30:46)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (31:12)
And that's the other thing I didn't like about the corporate job. I was just doing work to make people rich. And it just didn't, it didn't, who was it affecting? Why did it matter? What did it mean? And so at this job, there were students who needed their financial aid and they were running into issues with the system and I would fix the system, right? And I would make sure that this aid got dispersed and I make sure that students were able to go, you know, to college, just it meant something. And so.

Rhonda Coleman (31:21)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (31:37)
I was, that was one of the first, that definitely has been a theme. I started learning that I needed to do work for my own, for my heart. I needed to use my mind to do work that needed something to do. And so, and I was able to work my way up from this entry level position very quickly. I moved into another position and I ended it as an associate director at that space. So that was.

Rhonda Coleman (31:46)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

That's impressive.

So impressive and you were at SMU as an employee for eight years. Is that correct? Okay. All right. So you get a master's degree in English from SMU Computer Science to English to Humanities. So talk about that shift.

Summer Hamilton (32:08)
Eight years,

while I'm working. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

always, so that reading that I did as a child, my mom is English teacher, right? All those things. just, I had avoided English as a, you know, being like studying English one because I wasn't allowed to, but also because I didn't want to be an English teacher like my mom, you know, I was like, you know, I was just going through a lot, like in terms of like trying to separate myself, my identity and all that. But you know, I was rejecting too much.

Rhonda Coleman (32:27)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sure, sure.

Summer Hamilton (32:49)
actually, right? And I kind of figured that out. You don't have to reject everything. You start finding the things that are useful about your upbringing. And so I always loved it. But people always told me, literally people would say, math and English don't go together. And I'm like, but I love those. Those are my two favorites. That's what I love. And so I decided, because I could get a degree for free, then why not get a master's in English?

Rhonda Coleman (32:50)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (33:18)
And so I started doing that while I was working full time and absolutely loved it. And then also was able to teach. actually, I requested you weren't you were supposed to be able to teach as part of the program. They told me because I was going to school part time that that would not apply to me. I said, well, we need to find a way to make it apply because that's not fair. If I'm paying for the same degree, you know, school's paying whoever's paying. Then I should be able to get.

Rhonda Coleman (33:37)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's being paid for.

Summer Hamilton (33:46)
I should be able to do everything that comes with it. And so my job, they're super cool, such great people that I worked with at SMU. And so they're, you know, my director of time, they're like, yes, do it during lunchtime, whatever you need, right? And so I would go over during lunch and teach a course on freshman composition and then come back over and it was the best hour of the day. I was just like, I was like,

Rhonda Coleman (34:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (34:14)
punch drunk, was just high off the energy. I was like, oh, I need to teach. That's I'm doing. And then so that was until I was like, I want to be a teacher. That's what I decided. I want to teach and I think I may want to teach college. And then I had a professor who I was in her course and she said to me, have you ever thought about getting a PhD? And I said, no, even

Rhonda Coleman (34:16)
I love that.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (34:40)
It just never crossed. a master's was as high as anyone in my family had been. My mom didn't finish hers, but she had gone for it. And so that was the top. And so that still, I'm just like, still right now, kind of boggles my mind that I just didn't, it was right there and I just didn't even think it was possible. Not even possible. It's not even that. I just didn't even think of it. You know? So when she said it, I was like, no.

Rhonda Coleman (34:49)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

You didn't think of it, yeah.

Summer Hamilton (35:09)
Right. And then I started thinking, why not? Why not me? And you know, it's a funded program. I would have to leave my salary behind, but I wanted, I decided, you know? And I remember asking my little child, you know, like, what would you think about mommy being doctor, Dr. Hamilton? And he was like, that's a man sounds like a man. I was like, okay.

Rhonda Coleman (35:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

That means I need to go. That means I need to get this PhD. This is my baby boy. Does not identify doctor with a woman. Yes.

Summer Hamilton (35:36)
Exactly!

So yeah, so I started planning because that's what I do. I plan out to get myself some options. I planned and I saved up money, paid off bills, got debt free so that I could afford to live on that student salary with my kid. So I quit my job of eight years and went back to school full time for the English degree.

Rhonda Coleman (36:05)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes, no, I

love that. I love that. And I think just hearing you say that, this is the first time I realized that we have that in common. That I quit my job of teaching 10 years to go back to school to get a law degree, to become a lawyer. Yes, with kids. So that's awesome. Summer did it. Summer did it too. Yay. Cool, cool. OK.

Summer Hamilton (36:25)
Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And I

love that our kids get that example.

Rhonda Coleman (36:44)
Yes, for sure, for sure.

So now your experience getting your PhD in English, I was very surprised. Well, because I'm not in higher ed and I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I'm married to somebody in higher ed, but he's a man. He's a white man. So his experience is different. He teaches at a rural liberal arts college in Missouri. So I, his experience and story is going to be different from yours.

So can you tell us about it?

Summer Hamilton (37:16)
Yeah, it was really hard. It was the first time that my smarts were questioned. Like that was a thing I always had in my bag, right? Like no one had ever questioned that about me. know, I might wonder, this, am I funny? Am I this? Am I cute? You know, whatever. But like, I'm not smart.

Rhonda Coleman (37:26)
Yeah, those motherfuckers. I'm sorry. Girl, that's how I feel.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, not in my smart.

Summer Hamilton (37:44)
but constantly questioned, right? Am I smart? Do I, was told I did not belong there. And that, it was, you know, I had instances in class, I had an instance where I gave this amazing BOM presentation. I knew it was BOM. I was excited when I was writing it, when I was giving it, you know, a student in class, I had sent it to her ahead of time because she was the respondent.

Rhonda Coleman (37:51)
wow.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (38:14)
And after I finished, I'm so proud. I'm so proud, right? And also, remember, I'm a grown woman, right? I've left a job. I'm on a trip. And I'm sitting there, and I'm just so proud of myself. And it's quiet, and the professor leans back, and he says, wow, that was really good. Is this your work?

Rhonda Coleman (38:22)
Exactly.

shit. I've said two curse words on this podcast episode. Apple podcasts. Sorry. Wow. W-O-W. Of course it was.

Summer Hamilton (38:49)
Yeah, and I remember the... Yeah.

Like, I can't even, I can't, the feeling, my goodness, you know? The embarrassment, even the question like that, right? My whole class, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so I'm stunned, I can't even speak, right? And...

Rhonda Coleman (38:56)
Dang.

Yes, in front of people.

no.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (39:16)
the respondent, you know, who's known me for a couple of years, even if she hadn't, but she, she said, yes. She answers for me. I she goes, yes. And it's brilliant. And Megan for saying that. And I, and I, so then I said, yes, you know, and he's like, and then he made me explain right then and there how I came up with the idea. Like this, you know, like this disbelief that I could think of this.

Rhonda Coleman (39:27)
Yes!

Oh my god. Oh my god.

Summer Hamilton (39:50)
And that was just one thing, you know, like it was, I had had a lot. so, again, so we talk about the angels. had, one angel, this professor, Angela, who just, man, I wouldn't have made it without her. You know, I cry on the how many tears that I shed, you know, with, with her. And, and so a job came up actually. so funny enough.

Rhonda Coleman (39:51)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Summer Hamilton (40:19)
I have been talking to, I was at a conference and I was helping with the conference while still in grad school and talking to a different professor, a woman, Nina. And so she and I were just chatting about what I might like to do when I graduate. Well, I have a child, so I can't go on the market and move anywhere because I would like to stay here close to his father, right? So it's good course by that time. And so I said, so, you know, I wouldn't mind working at a school like, I don't know, like a Hockaday.

Rhonda Coleman (40:41)
Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (40:49)
I wouldn't mind working at a school like that. Six months later or so, Angela reaches out and she says, Nina says that you might be interested in working at a school like Hacade. I just got a message that they're looking for an English teacher. And I'm like the fact that I had the conversation was, she says, is that right? Is that true? know I'm like, it's true. We did have a conversation.

Rhonda Coleman (40:50)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Summer Hamilton (41:15)
But I'm doing the degree and so we had a talk and she was like, she knew what I've been going through and how I was low. She saw me more than I even saw myself. Maybe this is a good idea. Maybe take a moment. Take a moment to remember who you are. And so I applied and got it. And some of the best five years of my life were spent teaching those kids.

Rhonda Coleman (41:24)
Yes, of course.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Summer Hamilton (41:44)
Amazing, When I think about life and I think about like you have this goal or whatever, but like the journey has been so rich for me. The curves, the turns, like I would never have experienced that richness in my life of teaching young people, these brilliant girls who were so eager and just so, and helped me rethink things, you know? And also what also is cool is that they were, happened to line up with the age with my son.

Rhonda Coleman (41:56)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Summer Hamilton (42:15)
And teaching these teenagers also just made me, I feel like a more empathetic mother, you know? And so there's just so much good that came from that.

Rhonda Coleman (42:19)
Yes. Yes.

Yes, I love that. As you were talking, something that came up for me was when you talked about your father reminding you to check in with yourself, are you happy? It's like your balance barometer there. And then your mother even asking, do you feel balanced? And so that's a part of your makeup, you know? And when we feel balanced, when we...

Summer Hamilton (42:47)
Right.

Rhonda Coleman (42:56)
check in with ourself, things come to us that resonate with that harmony and balance, right? If we can move through life feeling harmonious, that is big. So that's a big gift that you have, which is wonderful. Love it. Okay, and so now the job that you have now.

Summer Hamilton (43:01)
I'm

Yeah.

Hehehehehe

Rhonda Coleman (43:22)
Which is so exciting, I absolutely

love it. It's amazing when you were telling me about it. I was just so excited and over the moon. And then when you said you had gotten the job, I was like, that's amazing.

Summer Hamilton (43:32)
Wow.

Rhonda Coleman (43:34)
but before you get into what you're doing now, which I am super excited about, tell us where you went after you left Hockaday.

Summer Hamilton (43:45)
Okay. So, so after I left Haka Day, so I actually, so here's another time when you talk about like asking for what I want. I was ABD when I was at Haka Day and, my dissertation director was like, hello, you know, so I was there, as I said, I taught for five years. I was, I taught for four years and then I needed to finish. so I wrote, I, I was reading, I was thinking I wanted to take a leave of absence. so ABD is all but dissertation.

Rhonda Coleman (43:53)
Mm-hmm.

What's ABD?

Okay,

yeah, yeah, yeah, got it.

Summer Hamilton (44:15)
Yeah, so

I was in that stage of all but dissertation. And so I finished all the requirements of the degree, right? So I needed to finish, but didn't necessarily want to give up my job because I wasn't sure, you know, what's on to a job, So I was thinking about taking a leave of absence. I'm reading, so I like to, when I'm getting ready to plan something, you know, I know all the ins and outs of it. And so I read the handbook, right? The teacher, the whole teacher handbook.

Rhonda Coleman (44:21)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Summer Hamilton (44:44)
And I saw like that they had something a little one line about a sabbatical. And I was like, And so I started doing some research about sabbaticals, asked a few questions, found out like 20 years ago, this one guy had taken a sabbatical, it's all I needed. And so I wrote a proposal about taking a sabbatical. And they were like, what? That's not.

Rhonda Coleman (44:49)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Summer Hamilton (45:10)
thing and I was like, actually here it is and you know, 4.3 whatever it be. And so I put all my rhetorical writing skills to use and both this convincing letter and my chair agreed with it and I convinced the provost of the school to give me a sabbatical with unpaid, but still, where they would hold a job for me and I could come back to my job. And so that's when I left to go back and work on finishing the dissertation. And so

Rhonda Coleman (45:14)
huh, huh.

You

Yeah, exactly.

Summer Hamilton (45:41)
And and true to my word I came back I didn't have to go back but I did because I had promised and I just think the karma, you know, I think if I And it was a great thing. So I went back and taught another year and then and then I worked another year on my dissertation and finished or six months and So again that same angel the mentor that I mentioned at SMU she was asking me what I might want to do because my

Rhonda Coleman (45:46)
Yeah, yeah,

Summer Hamilton (46:05)
Son was about to graduate coming up, graduate high school, and I was gonna have some freedom to do some more, to move. And she's like, what would you wanna do? And I said, you know, I'm not sure, but I wanna go somewhere where I feel affirmed. I'm so tired of fighting, know? Fighting to be seen, fighting to be heard, fighting, you know, for your ideas to be seen as having value, for yourself to be seen as having value. I was exhausted.

Rhonda Coleman (46:11)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (46:33)
And what I knew for sure is that I'm not doing that again. You know? And some, yeah. So I said, you know, I would love to work with a person with a, a, with a Gabrielle Foreman is what I said, who is this person that I followed on Twitter, who I would just watch her affirm black women or people, scholars of color, black scholars. So it's like, you know, give advice so freely and just, I was like, that's the kind of energy I want to be around.

Rhonda Coleman (46:37)
Exactly. Yes, I feel you on that.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (47:03)
you know? And, and I said that to her and I'd also written, I found this later, I had written it in one of my little meditation journals as well. And a couple months into me finishing my dissertation, or I was still working on it, a job opens up and she retweets it. It's a job working with her and the job was me. The job described, it was a combination, which I was working on African-American literature, someone who was versed in African-American

Rhonda Coleman (47:03)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Okay, yes.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (47:32)
history, literature, and culture, but also had digital skills. And I was like, you've got to be kidding me. And so, and sure enough, I reached out to her and she was, you very nice to talk to me about the job. I still had to go through the process and apply.

Rhonda Coleman (47:35)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (47:52)
So, yeah, so I go through the process of applying for the job and I applied for only two jobs, which is crazy because, you know, going on the market, but I only applied to two. I got interviews with both and the interview with Penn State was just when I went there, I was so myself. I have never felt that I had at the time. said I felt that comfortable before on an interview. It was just and the director for the position that I was going to be in, which was not Gabriel, someone else. He and I are walking back.

Rhonda Coleman (48:11)
Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (48:22)
from the lunch and he says, did it feel like this position was written for you? You know, we just met that day. And I said, I said, what? And he said, yeah, hmm, like that. And I thought to myself, well, that's a good sign. And sure enough, and I got that job and moved across the country. So first time, you know, left the South, moved up North and.

Rhonda Coleman (48:27)
Yes.

Yes.

Summer Hamilton (48:49)
was at Penn State and in State College. Penn State was great for me. Definitely got me closer to figuring out what I want. I was able to do work that was so meaningful, work that could impact the public, still included this element of teaching in it, because I got to do this training. And so I was hitting all these things. I'm like, OK, this is what I like to do. These are things that I enjoy. I got to use my brain to solve these puzzles.

Rhonda Coleman (49:02)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (49:17)
to help people, really, love a job that has an element of service to it. so I was like, this is, I really was enjoying that. But I was not enjoying state college. What I also learned about myself in life is how much I need to be close to black culture and have access to black culture. And it was lacking there. And so, I was feeling myself, so here we go again, I was feeling this unease in my soul.

Rhonda Coleman (49:22)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Summer Hamilton (49:46)
deep in my soul and I cannot, I can't bear it. It's like I can't live. I can't, I actually can't bear it and I have to resolve it. And so, and I was getting a little burned out, I think, which is trying to create happiness. I was working on it. I did a lot. I started taking piano lessons, voice lessons, volunteering, throwing parties, like, but it was a lot of work. And actually one of your podcasts on burnout,

Rhonda Coleman (49:50)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (50:15)
when they defined burnout, said, that's me.

Rhonda Coleman (50:18)
Hahaha!

Summer Hamilton (50:21)
And so, and around this time, I am on Twitter and I see someone that I worked with on a digital humanities project back in 2019, tweet something about being at the Museum of African American History and Culture. And I'm thinking, what is she doing there? She was a professor at Arizona. What's she doing there? And so I reached out to her and find out that she's taken a position there. And I'm like, we can do that.

Rhonda Coleman (50:38)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (50:51)
And so I meet with her, I reach out, and we have a meeting, a lunch, and she's really helpful in just telling me about her story and why she made this decision and what it's been for her and how wonderful it's been for her. And that's all I needed. This is a path. And again, it's that opportunity to come up with a PhD. I can do that? And so the Smithsonian is like,

Rhonda Coleman (51:06)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Summer Hamilton (51:19)
Working at a museum, like it's something, I can't even explain it. Like it's like a dream. I didn't even know I could do that. know, like didn't know that was the beat in my career path, right? And so I started looking for positions and then this one came around that I almost, I mean, just blew me away at the way it was just like, they needed someone with an education background. Someone who had worked, know, with,

Rhonda Coleman (51:27)
Yeah.

I that.

Summer Hamilton (51:48)
digital archives, somebody who had, like it was, it took every job I think almost that I have ever had and put them in one thing. And even to the point of it being the women's museum, because I had taught five years at an all-girl school.

Rhonda Coleman (51:54)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love

this so much. I love this so much. So everybody listening, there is something out there that is just for you. You don't have to settle. The universe created it for summer because you had clarity, like develop clarity around what it was you needed. But even if you have to go and create it for yourself, it's always a possibility, right?

Summer Hamilton (52:20)
you

Rhonda Coleman (52:33)
Possibilities are endless. You do not have to settle. You do not have to sit within your pain and discomfort. You can let that go because if you do sit there, it's just going to eat you alive, which is awful. Yeah. I get so excited like listening. I can listen to it like a million times. I never get bored by the story.

Summer Hamilton (52:46)
Absolutely. Yeah. And so yeah. It's

been super exciting. And when I interviewed for it, like I knew it. You know, it was such a comfortable interview because I was so passionate about the work and so excited to do it. And just, as I said to her, to the...

Rhonda Coleman (53:07)
Mm-hmm.

Summer Hamilton (53:15)
who would become my supervisor. And I was just like, this is a way, it was like my brain and my heart get to connect in my work. You know, it's just, yeah, just amazing. So I'm so, so happy. So happy, yeah. Yeah, right, exactly. I'm in DC. I'm like, I'm near also, I'm near my sister. Like, it's just like so many things that I needed. Yeah.

Rhonda Coleman (53:22)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yes, and you're in DC.

Mm-hmm.

Awesome. Lovely, lovely. This has been an amazing conversation. We are coming to the end of our time together. What pivot pearls of wisdom would you like to leave the audience with today? Because you have so many. So much has come through this podcast episode conversation already.

Summer Hamilton (54:02)
Well...

I guess I would say a few things. One is maybe, you know, maybe like I've, and again, I'll give you credit for helping me kind of, guess, pull this pearl out and polish it, right? But that's the idea of sometimes, you know, maybe you can't identify, maybe if you're like me and you grew up in a space where your wants were not, were, were.

Rhonda Coleman (54:26)
You

Summer Hamilton (54:39)
were not important and you weren't told to even recognize them. They weren't recognized. You have trouble maybe identifying them. But sometimes you know what you don't want and that maybe is equally important. know, listening to that voice because it gets you to what you want, even if you can't define it. You know what you don't want and it's important to listen to that voice. And I would also say like in finding that like with some with

Rhonda Coleman (54:52)
Mm-hmm.

Right, exactly.

Summer Hamilton (55:07)
my the jobs and stuff and making these decisions. One of the things that I had to do as a recovering people pleaser is to just ask myself if no one else, know, if you didn't have to worry about someone else being happy, right? Like ignore everyone else, what would you do? If it was just you, what would you do? You know?

Rhonda Coleman (55:26)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I love that. Ooh, so good.

Summer Hamilton (55:34)
I mean, have to go through these exercises because, you know, I'm, I mean, I did the therapy thing and that has been also, yeah, maybe I should say that, get therapy. Go to therapy to help you learn to hear your voice and to also help you validate your voice. Cause you probably hear it, but you don't know how to validate it. Yes.

Rhonda Coleman (55:44)
Hehehehehe

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, exactly. You need permission to do what you want to do.

Yeah, this is awesome. Love it. Love it. I'll listen to this episode a few times. Thank you for being on. You're lovely. You're beautiful. Thank you so much inside and out. And until next time.

Summer Hamilton (56:07)
No.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. It's been awesome. Thank you for letting me share.