Awatif Yahya, The Right Way to Lead

In this eye-opening episode, Awatif Yahya redefines what it means to be a leader. Drawing on her experience as a Fortune 500 HR executive, Awatif shares her top tips on how corporations can build strong leadership teams. A favorite of her many tips in this podcast is "leadership is not a title, it's a conduct".  Another is "at the heart of being a good leader is simply being a decent human being".  Whether you're looking for ways to improve your own leadership skills or looking for ways to improve leadership at your company, you will be inspired by this episode. Awatif is the Founder of Awe Horizons, LLC a consulting firm that provides leadership development workshops to corporations. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Awatif Learns Leadership
• 5:54 Healthy Work Environment
• 8:18 Bring Your Whole Self To Work
• 12:21 Leadership is Not a Title
• 16:23 Letting Go of Biases
• 27:31 Awe Horizons Consulting

Transcript

00:00
you

00:06
Hello, I'm Rhonda Colman-Wandel and welcome to my podcast where we share our stories to inform, uplift and empower professional women everywhere. On today's episode, I'll be talking to Awatif Yahya. Awatif is a passionate advocate of healthy leadership skills, helping corporations build effective leadership teams through her consulting firm, Awe Horizons.

00:33
Today, Allatiff is going to share her top tips to building strong leaders.

00:39
Hi, Awathef, how are you? I'm good, hello, and thank you for having me on your podcast. Yes, thank you for being here. I'm so excited that you're here. I was very excited to meet you and learn about what you do because developing strong leaders is something that's very important to me. I know it's super important to have effective and strong leadership in corporations, so I'm excited to talk with you today about that.

01:09
So first question, before we get into kind of exploring top tips for leaders, what did you, you've had a long, awesome career path. And I know one position that you held, you were an executive leadership in a major corporation. And I think your experience there kind of inspired you to pivot into what you're doing now. So can you tell us about

01:38
where you were before where you are now, however you want to explore that. Sure. Thank you. So my last, I've had many, many years in the corporate world, but I'm going to focus on the last decade or so, just to make it easier. So I worked for a company by the name of British American Tobacco. It's a Fortune 500 company.

02:03
And obviously by the name, it's a tobacco industry, tobacco products is what we were involved in. And as you can imagine, it's a controversial business or it can be controversial business. So the way to attract talent is different from other companies that maybe are selling water or cookies or what have you. So, you know.

02:32
They had to be quite deliberate in terms of the culture and in terms of the leadership that they had because that's the only way you can actually attract and maintain and retain talent. There is a certain amount of money, you can't keep throwing money at people and then expect people to just come if you have a toxic culture. So obviously money is important, but what really attracted

03:02
or the secret formula to keeping and attracting talent was actually the culture and the type of environment you are creating and that's what attracts people. That's what makes people wanna come and work for you. That's the kind of magnet that it creates. And I have to say they really got leadership skills right. Maybe because it was a controversial industry and so they had to focus on leadership skills, but.

03:30
I wouldn't be the person I am today if it wasn't for them. So they were very, very progressive in terms of what leadership meant. They created and cultivated a culture that lived by what they believed in and what their values are, and everyone kind of bought into it, and everyone wasn't bored. And that whole experience shaped my idea of what a healthy work environment should be like.

03:59
And so fast forward a few years later, when I came to do my MBA here in the United States, it was an executive MBA. So I was interacting with people who would work in the morning and then they come and do the classes in the evening. And so part of that program, we had to talk a lot about real life examples and case studies and what's happening right now. And as I was going through that,

04:29
I kept hearing more and more of horrifying examples, actually, of toxic environments and really bad behavior from so-called managers and leaders. And it got me thinking. It made me reflect back to what I had experienced with BAT and with my tenure there. And I came to realize, like, hang on. You don't have to behave this way.

04:59
this way. It doesn't have to be this way. And by being a decent employer, by showing or exhibiting leadership skills, you can really gain profits. So you don't have to sacrifice on your profits to become or to exhibit good leadership skills so that you can coexist. And that's where this whole

05:29
I wanted to share a little bit more about my experiences with BAT, about what healthy work environments could be like. It's really easy. It doesn't take much. It just takes that intentional effort. And that's kind of where this whole thing started, where I wanted to get into basically raising awareness about leadership skills. Okay. Wonderful.

05:59
What position did you hold or ultimately end up holding at the tobacco company? So that's one question. And then I want to know how working in an environment who got leadership right, working in that culture, how that impacted you on a day to day basis. Yeah. So in my decade that I worked, 10 years that I worked for BAT, I held multiple positions and I was...

06:29
climbing the career ladder every few years or so. But the last position with them was head of HR. So head of the human resources department. As you can imagine, at head of HR, there's a lot of sub-functions and a lot of tasks that fall under that umbrella. The transactional side of HR, such as payroll, compensation, was never too attractive to me because you can automate that, you can outsource that.

06:59
Obviously, I had to sign off payroll and things like that and do the budgeting, that's fine. And that's part of the daily work. But what I was much more interested in was the people side of HR. So the succession planning, the talent development, the motivation and engagement and leadership skills and conflict resolution, and basically all those kinds of things that really require the human interaction.

07:27
things that you cannot automate in AppSource. And that's what I spent the majority of my time or my focus in. And it kind of then led to what I'm doing right now. So you really got to get insight into what people, what makes people perform well at work, what makes people like perform not so well at work, what people complain about, what people like.

07:55
Good managers, not so good managers, you had a front row seat to all of that. So I can imagine that all of that has, you've kind of taken all of that experience and information into your, what you're doing now, consulting for corporations, teaching them how to build strong leadership teams. Yeah. Cool. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So I'd like to move into your top tips for corporate.

08:25
leaders and how to build corporate leadership teams. I know I was listening to one of your YouTube presentations before this podcast, and you were saying that leaders shouldn't create inspiring work cultures that increase productivity by encouraging employees to come to work as themselves, bringing their whole selves to work. So, can you talk to us about the important, what does that mean to bring your whole self to work?

08:52
because lots of people use that expression. What does that really mean? And then why is that important? Yeah, yeah. So first and foremost, it is no longer

09:10
valid to separate the personal life from work life. We're very much on or switched on 24 hours these days and you cannot really separate the two. So what happens in the personal life affects work and vice versa, right? So by bringing your full self to work, it's basically feeling safe to be yourself, okay? And...

09:38
showing your identity or the portions of your identity that you are willing to share. So first of all, let me roll back a little bit and talk a little bit about leadership. People confuse leadership with the title. So first of all, leadership is not a title. Yes, I love it. It's a conduct. And just because you don't have a title of...

10:05
a supervisor, a manager, a leader doesn't give you the right to behave badly. So, okay. So it's not reserved for the few. It's not linked to the title. It's not linked to the department. It's all about your conduct and how you carry yourself within the organization. So that's, that's within your surroundings anyway, in the organization and outside. So that's, that's one thing to remember. It's not a title. It's a conduct.

10:34
The next thing to remember is that you cannot go there and declare yourself the leader. You cannot claim this position. It's something that is awarded or given to you by people around you and they award you or they refer to you as a leader depending on how you make them feel. So again, it goes back to the conduct.

11:04
It goes back to the behavior. You can't just declare, and you can't just give that title to yourself. It's something that people honorably and respectfully award you, and it goes back to how you make them feel. So that's number two. And number three, it's all about making sure that you have people with you. So you have that vision. You have that vision.

11:34
you were able to win the hearts and minds of people so that they follow you and that they are with you. Because if you're just off on your own and you just, it can be very lonely, right? So you need to make sure that whatever tactics you use, whatever conduct or behavior you use, you make sure that you don't end up being alone and you're not leading by yourself and nobody.

12:04
is around you to support you. So those are the three things. It's really about the conduct. It's something that it is awarded to you. And then lastly, you need to have people around you. And so- So let's come back to that. Because it's like, all of this is so rich, so good. I wanna unpack some of it. So the first thing- I can talk about it forever. It's not a title, it's a conduct. So I love this,

12:33
this question a lot because I work at the corporation that I work for, I work for Google, and I am on the Black Google Network Chicago leadership team. And the pillar that I'm aligned to is professional development. And people ask, you know, well, can because we're going to put on workshops for leadership development. And they're like, well, I'm not like I don't have a team lead in my title. I'm not a team lead. So how does this apply to me?

13:02
And we're like, no, you know, leadership skills, you don't start developing those when you have a title team lead. Those are things that are always that you're always working on and developing. So can you talk a little more about that? Like how the skills that you develop at all levels throughout your career will transfer and into an actual, you know, formal leadership role?

13:29
Yeah, it's all about, really, it's about how good of a person you are. OK, and that's why I say it's not linked to the title. That's one point. Second point for all those people who say, well, I'm not a leader right now. Well, you might be a leader in the future. So it's always good to start learning those skills. It's not a switch. You don't you don't pick up these skills. You read.

13:57
You really need to put effort and time into it to build. And it's like a muscle, you know, the more you work on it, the better you become. So it's really about, in summary, if you ask me what leadership is all about, it's about being a decent human being. In summary, that's what it is. And then you can dive into, well, what does that mean when it comes to my relationship with those people around me?

14:26
or what does that mean when it comes to my influencing stakeholders? Or what does that mean with regards to business ethics? And then we can dive into those kind of different arms of it. But at the end of it, if you just want to, like in a nutshell, in a summary, what a good leader is, is a decent human being. And that's a compliment. Who doesn't want to work with a more decent human being? Who doesn't want to work with...

14:50
Yes, exactly, exactly. And for some reason, I've seen this a lot as well, those same people that actually behave badly in the office or behave badly in the work environment, they have friends, they have family, they go out and they socialize with people and they have beers with their friends and they're really good people outside the office. But for some reason, there's this...

15:19
reputation that you have to adopt a certain persona when you enter the office and you have and you have to be you have to be harsh or you have to conduct yourself in a in a certain way and people misinterpret that and they think that's leadership and so and then that thinking leads them to behave in a way that is really not appreciated by those around them and they think they're doing the right thing they think this is what leadership really means.

15:48
But it's not. So that same person who is maybe rude in the office or whatever, just think that they actually have friends and they might have a whole different persona outside. So the idea is how to make that person bring that good self and good persona into the work environment as well and behave in the same way that actually...

16:15
allowed them to gain those friends and the support of people around them. Right. So how do we build work cultures that make people feel safe? Because I know you used that expression before. So I imagine if you feel safe enough to bring your whole self to work, then that foster that means that you trust you trust the people around you. You know, you trust your employer, you trust your leadership.

16:44
you feel safe. So can you talk a bit more about that? Yeah, it's two way. First of all, first of all, the the way to break this unsafe tea environment is first of all, to get a to get rid of any assumptions and stereotypes you might have. Okay. So

17:09
People need to get rid of whatever they have in their mind about a certain behavior or a certain norm that might come from their own upbringing or whatever they read. They need to let go of that and look at every human being as a different, you know, put it as a plain blank piece of paper.

17:37
and with no assumptions. And it's hard to do. It is hard to do because we all have biases and that we have accumulated throughout our lives. But it starts there. Just look at every human being as an individual blank sheet, you know, and start building depending on how that person behaves and how that person contacts themselves. So that's one part of it. The second part of it for you, for the person that going in, if somebody, and I always say this too,

18:06
to everyone, especially when I do sexual harassment, detection and prevention work. Please don't assume malice. People really say and do things to the most part. People do and say things out of ignorance and out of not knowing. Most people don't know that the things that they are doing or saying could be hurtful to others.

18:31
And so when somebody says something or does something within reason, you know, I'm not talking about, you know, physical assault or anything like that, but if somebody says or does something that doesn't sit well with you, take it as an opportunity to educate that person and to tell them that, hey, what you said really came across as this. And I know you might not mean to, that wasn't your intention, but this is how it made me feel.

19:00
And that's a sign of a good leadership too. Rather, to go out and confront them, not assuming malice, but really just telling them that their action or their words, what kind of impact it had on you and those around you. And so that will break that, that will make us come closer to the psychological safety environment. When first the people get rid of any assumptions and stereotypes that they have, and then for the others or the recipients

19:29
bad behavior to actually confront those people rather than casting them away as racist sexist or whatever, take an opportunity to approach that person, you know, and tell them the impact their behavior has had on you and give them an opportunity for makeover, you know. Um, and, and that, that, that's, that's the kind of action that bridges gaps, you know, and, and brings people together rather than separating them.

19:59
and creates this whole environment of them and us. Right, I love that creating a safe environment where you can go to someone on your team, even someone in a leadership position and say, look, you did this and it made me feel this way. I don't think that you have the intention to be- Exactly, and that's the point. If you approach somebody and say, I know you didn't mean this.

20:28
I know this wasn't your intention, but this is the impact it had. Then you take the defense, because if you go to somebody and say, oh, you did this, you purposely did this, what they're going to do is they're going to defend themselves. The defense mechanisms comes down and then there's no way you can talk. But it takes time to tangle. So biases, you're talking about that. And I know those run deep.

20:58
Those are deep. So how do you counsel corporations on dealing with biases? Because I've personally had the experience of being, I guess, a victim of someone in a leadership position's gender biases that they weren't even aware of, you know, that they held. But the effect of the action.

21:28
was great, right? And I did feel comfortable in expressing, you know, to that person that, hey, look, you know, what you just did wasn't cool. You know, I'm the only woman in the mix. And although that's not what you intended, this is how it, these are the effects of your actions. So how do you, how do we educate people on their biases?

21:58
Well, first of all, biases come internally. So we all have biases. It's what goes on internally in our head, and then it gets reflected externally by our actions. So going back to what I said earlier about not assuming malice and confronting it and calling it out,

22:27
That's how I would advise everyone to look at this. So first of all, the easiest way, and this is just a small tip, because we can talk about biases forever. A small tip, before you do or say anything to somebody, just stop and switch.

22:49
an identity or a component of that person's identity. So say, for example, you about to go and say something to a woman. Oh, you wanna give her feedback about something. Before you do it, stop yourself just for a second and flip it and say, well, if she was a man and she did this, would I have given this feedback to her? And if the answer is no,

23:16
And then you know that whatever you're gonna say to this person comes from biases rather than the actual action. So just flip it and same thing can be applicable to race. If you're going to go and talk to somebody about something and then just switch it on, you know, think if this person was white, would you have done this? Would you approach it? And that could be a quick check, a self check to...

23:45
to stop you from committing any bias before you put your feet to that. So that's just one quick example that I give everyone a tip on how to just stop yourself, switch that identity or component of that identity because we have the many identifiers, I have a woman and then, so just switch one of those identities and see if your action,

24:14
or your words will still be valid. If they are, go ahead. If not, then that's a good self-check to just see where you are with regards to the action or the words that you're going to say. OK. Does that make sense? Yes. Thank you.

24:35
So we were going to kind of move into talking about your tips to leaders, but I think we've already given us so many great tips. Are there any other ones that you want to share? Um, I mean, with, with leaders really, I mean, the, the, the biggest thing is, uh, you, you don't get there. You're never there. You're never a leader and full stop. You always going to continue to learn. So just be open to that. I love that.

25:04
That is so important. We never stop learning. And I think that's so important. I heard somebody tell me, I told them, hey, I'm gonna sign up. I'm taking this executive coaching, which I'm in the middle of. And I think it's fantastic. It's a 12 week program. I'm like at week six. And they were like, oh, that's great. Like I think I'm just at a point in my career where I don't need that anymore. And for me that was like, I'm like.

25:34
No, we are always growing and evolving and should look to become better versions of ourselves. So I love that tip. Yeah. And another thing that's hard to do, and I even wrote a blog about this. You know, if you, early on I said, don't assume malice, right? So if somebody comes to you and says you've done something or said something that doesn't sit well,

26:01
It doesn't take long. It doesn't take much to say, I'm sorry. But some people find that very hard to do. Very, very hard to do. Saying I'm sorry doesn't mean I'm a bad person. Doesn't mean, you know, maybe it doesn't even mean that I've done something wrong. But saying I'm sorry acknowledges the unintentional pain that you cause somebody else. And that, you know,

26:29
person who can correct themselves, stop themselves, and learn to say, I am sorry, and mean it, genuinely mean it. Not just, you know, not giving it lip service, but seriously connecting with that person and saying, hey, I am sorry that my action made you feel this way. That's a good sign of a mature, mindful leader. So, and that's a skill that is...

26:58
very, very hard for some reason. It's very hard for people to do because some people think, oh, if I say I'm sorry, then I am admitting that I'm a bad person. No, you're not. You're admitting that you are a mature person, that you care. And so that's maybe, there's so many tips, but that's another one that I think, again, would bring people closer together and would help in that leadership muscle. Okay, wonderful.

27:27
Can you tell us about some of the workshops that you offer? OK, so at Our Horizons, as you can tell, I'm very passionate about leadership skills and can talk about this forever. So if you go Google leadership, I think you'll find 2.6 billion definitions and over 70,000 books written on the matter. But I choose to just put it in three main pillars just to simplify it.

27:54
So I call these pillars people leadership, business leadership, and strategic leadership. Each pillar consists of certain skill sets and certain themes to become a holistic leader. So under the people leadership pillar, you will find themes around feedback, coaching, diversity, equity, and inclusion fall under their building effective teams and all the

28:21
work that takes into designing effective teams, because that's to do with people. So those are the kind of themes that fall under the people leadership pillar. The business leadership pillar will have themes on business ethics, because we have to tell people, some people are becoming confused between what's ethical and a misconduct. We have to clarify it. So you find themes around business ethics, change management, negotiation skills.

28:49
anti-harassment just because harassment has a big implication to the business. So it falls under the business leadership pillar. So those are kind of the themes that go under there. And then the strategic leadership pillar is all about setting direction and focus and building centers of excellence and, you know, building cultures, amazing cultures and things like that. So it's a much more strategic, long-term vision and making sure that you bring those people with you.

29:19
So those are the three and I work with corporations, I work with organizations to find out where the gaps and according to the gaps they wanna fill or the skills that they wanna build, I can take from multiple themes or multiple of these pillars and customize a workshop that's best fit for them. The most important thing is it's never death by PowerPoint. It's...

29:48
They're very interactive because through the exercises, through the team works, through the brainstorming and through storytelling, that's what resonates with people. That's what people remember more than the bullet points and things like that. So they're all very interactive and taking people through experiences to learn. Nice. Very nice.

30:13
Okay, well, Alateef, thank you for being on the podcast today. We've learned so much from you. I'm excited. I'm excited to re-listen to the podcast and take more notes. You know, some of your top tips, it's not a title, it's a conduct with respect to leadership. Second tip, it's awarded or given to you by people around you. So it's not something that you...

30:43
necessarily just because somebody gives you the title leader doesn't mean that you've been awarded it by those around you. And one of your your third tips, all about making sure that you have people on board and working with you and you're not just over here on the left and everybody's all the way over there on the right, you know, you're doing your thing. No, you got to pay attention and make sure everybody's on board. So I love those tips. Thanks again.

31:13
and talk to you soon. Thank you, thank you, Anfand, for having me on your podcast, and I'll talk to you soon. Bye. Bye-bye.